Translation of birth record Family Name Aurednik
Hi, am trying to track the Aurednik family and need some help with this birth record from Hudlice. I've attached a highlighted version showing the words I am having troubles with. I cannot find roots of Auredniks in Hudlice so thinking some of what I can't translate may be other town names.
Here is what I have deciphered. Infant is Veronika Aurednik. Father: Wenzl Aurednik, cottager (chalupka) son of Wenzl Aurednik, XXXXXX (town?) No 3, Maria XXXXX (last name?) XXXXX XXXXX (town?) No 2.
Another person thinks the father's name is Vaclav but both father and grandfather names look like Wenzl to me.
Here is the link to the original record and attachment is below. https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5792/19
Any help would be appreciated especially on town names. Thank you.
答え
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Before I start the translation, I like to teach my method. It is hard to figure out towns unless you are familiar with the area. First under "Register Description" it list the villages and their different spellings for this register. Sometimes that helps. Then I go to www.en.mapy.cz and put in the town. This site tells you quite a bit about your town and has two types of maps, a current map and a historical map (from 1900's). You can search the surrounding area for a town that sounds like what is in the record. The names vary according to the time in history so that is where the historical map comes in handy. If you think you already have a good spelling of the village or town in the beginning then you can skip these steps or do them at the end by going to www.genteam.at which is a gazetteer. It is free, easy to use but you must register and have a user name and password. You can go to the gazetteer section and start typing the village into the search box. You can also use parts of the word and insert a wild card such as a * for the part you are not sure of. When you find what you are looking for click on the page icon next to the result and it will bring up more info including a link to the archives. This Wikipedia site is also helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_the_Czech_Republic#O Now I will go complete these steps and let you know the results. Maybe others in the community will tell us about some of their methods.
Betseylee Browning
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Thanks Betseylee. I appreciate the tips. At this point, all I was using was a Google map of Czechia and trying to marry up names of places. Your tips will greatly improve my search results!
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Born 29 Sep 1840, baptized 30 Sep 1840, Hudlitz house number 73, Name Veronyka Aurudejk, Catholic, female, legitimate. Father: Wenzl Aurudej Chalupner (sometimes also spelled Galupner/Kalupner: a small farmer, more "well off" than a cottager), son of Wenzl Auredejk bauer (farmer) from Hostien house number 3, and Maria born Brozak from Hiskow [now Hyskov] house number 2. Mother: Katharina daughter of Thomas Kuthanek Galupner from Hudlitz [now Hudice] house number 73 and Anna born Blayak from Hudlitz house number 17. Witnesses Barbara Kuthankowa farmer’s wife, Ian Lebe farmer, both from Hudlitz.
I wasn’t sure about a few of the surname & town spellings, so I looked a few years forward in this book to see if they had another child, so I could compare the writing and see if it would help with those spellings. I found a sister, Maria, on image 47/229, page 44, https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5792/47#:
Born 11 April 1843, baptized 12 April 1843, Hudlitz house number 73, Name Maria, Catholic, female, legitimate. Father: Wenzl Auradajk Chalupnar, son of Wenzl Auradajk, bauer from Hostien house number 3, and Maria born Brozek from Hostien house number 2. Mother: Katharina daughter of Thomas Kuthanek Chalupner from Hudlitz house number 73 and Anna born Blayak from Hudlitz house number 17. Witnesses Maria Goldammer day laborer’s wife, Barbara Kuthankowa farmer’s wife, both from Hudlitz.
I’m not sure on the spelling of the town where the elder Wenzl Auredejk is from. Could be Hostien/Hostim/Hostina. Looking at the Gazeteer on genteam.at, there are several towns in Bohemia that were called Hostin, but none of them is very close to the towns of Hudlitz and Hiskow. If I were looking for more info on this town, I would try to find more siblings’ birth records to see if the spelling of this town name is more clear or if they may provide any more details. Anyway, hope this is helpful. Good luck!
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Thanks Stephanie Bradshaw for all of your help. You went above and beyond.
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Stephanie, thank you so much! I have been working on this record for days trying to figure out the names and locations. This is so helpful and thank you for finding another sibling. You sure went the extra mile. I cannot thank you enough! Outstanding!
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You're welcome!
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Sounds like you have already received the information you asked for I have a suggestion that helped me in the past. When having trouble reading a record check out the house number for the record this one looks like 73 in the left margin. Then look for other records from the same household. Those records might be more clearly written. It is amazing how some records can be so difficult and yet others so beautifully written. I did this years ago when I was tracing one of my lines and it worked beautifully. They usually write the house numbers where the event took place very clearly Another hint for name spelling of the record. Look back at the index page which many times lists all the villages that are included in that record/film. The village names are printed or typed ... so again easy to read. Then you can find the village on the map by going to www.mapy.cz
That way you can see nearby villages and how far apart they are or look.
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Thank you. I am now doing that. I've found quite a few additional births from House 73. Amazingly enough, the handwriting for the other towns is always hard to read! Am going to try the map next. Do you know if there is any document that describes Czech family structure in the 1700-1800s? I have noticed for the most part for my families that the husband goes to live with the wife's family. Rarely have I seen it the other way. I was wondering about customs like that. Thanks!!
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Thanks Susan Sander for the great ideas. I have not noticed any of my family going to live with the wife's family in my lines. The marriage is generally in the parish of the bride is the only thing that I have noticed. You might enjoy looking around this blog: http://czechgenealogy.nase-koreny.cz/search/label/society. Also have you seen the webinars listed in "Links" on the main page about the German Script you are trying to read. Taking these classes might help you.
Betseylee Browning
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There is another website which you may be aware of. Czech Genealogy for Beginner by Blanka. She has much information online for free and you can also hire her as a professional genealogist. I went to the site ... could not find an answer to your question ... so I posed your question. I am hoping she has the time to answer. Your question is a good one. One thought could be that the wife/woman of the family ... her job was to help her family with the cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc and help with the animals. And caring for the elderly of the family. The husband then would be involved in a trade or otherwise most likely with the farming and providing their livelihood. Just a guess. So it might sense for the couple to live with her family Just a guess. I am hoping that Blanka has a more "educated" view as to the custom.
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If you'd like to post the links to the other records you've found from house 73, I'd be glad to take a look at them to see if I have any more luck deciphering the correct spelling of the town names.
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I have not heard of that site and will check it out. I look forward to her answer. I wondered if it was based on which family was "in need" of care the most. Thanks for posing the question to Blanka.
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Hi Stephanie, If you wouldn't mind
Here is Barbara, b Mar 1834 https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5791/52 And I did see her death record in Feb 1848 https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5799/33
Frantiska b July 1838 https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5791/92
Anna b May 1845 https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5792/73
and the other two you have seen: Veronika and you found Maria.
I have looked through Hyskov and cannot find links to Brozek. I have look at all the Hol, Hor, Host towns close to Hudlice and further out and cannot find Auredniks, Oured, or Ureds (spelling appears differently in some death indexes) other than maybe family. I scanned available indexes from those towns. So if you could take a look I would certainly appreciate it to find new leads. I also did some research and found Auredniks from Cestice and Jetenovice but did not do a lot of digging there as I couldn't make a connection btwn those places and what is on the records. Sure do appreciate your help!
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Susan, thank you for the info on the website by Blanka. I have been reading her blog posts and they are fascinating! She provides such great insight on so many topics. I am having a blast reading her stuff!!
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So I'm not familiar with the State Regional Archive in Prague since my ancestors' records are listed in the Litomerice and Pilsen Archives, but I was looking around on the Prague Archive website, and I noticed that there is a town called Hostomice in the Beroun region. I took a look at it since it starts with "Host," and unfortunately the records for that town in the archives seem to only go back to 1875 for some reason. But I looked through the index book just to see if I could find your surnames. I didn't see Aurednik, but there is a Brozek living is Hostomice on image 5/96 at https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5644/5#. (There's also a Brozova and a Bruzkova, don't know if these might be other forms of the same surname). Don't know how helpful this is, without having the ability to search in records before 1875 in this town, but thought I'd mention it anyways.
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Will check it out! I have not seen any Brozeks in my searches so this is promising!
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It’s too bad the Brozeks are not showing up in Hyskow, since it's pretty clear how that town is spelled in the records and it's right there not far from Hudlitz at all. Unless they were also from Hostein/Hostim (or however it is spelled). There does seem to be some confusion about where Maria Brozek was from, since she is listed as from Hyskow in Veronyka’s, Barbara’s, & Franziska’s birth records, but she is listed as from Host… in Maria’s & Anna’s birth records. Maybe she was from Host…, just like her husband was.
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Since the handwriting for the town of Host... is about the same in all the birth records, I decided to take a look at an earlier record to see if it would be any more clear in the marriage record. Wenzl Aurednjk's marriage record is in Hudlice book 10, image 43/78, https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5796/43#. This record also says that Wenzl's mother was from Hiskow, and her name looks to be spelled 'Marya Broschek' here. And I can see the town name 'Host...' written two different times in this marriage record -- once for the town where Wenzl Aurednjk the elder is from, and once where it lists the town where the second witness is from. Here I think it looks like it's spelled Hostjm or Hostjw. (I'm not sure if that's very helpful, since it seems that they use the spellings Aurednjk and Aurednik, so maybe 'i's and 'j's were interchangeable, but I guess it's good to know all possible spelling variations as you search).
There was also one more Aurednjk marriage that I noticed in the index in Hudlice book 11, on image 8/139, at https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5797/8#. This is for Joseph Aurednjk from St Johann, son of Johann Aurednjk from Dorfe Host..., but it doesn't say which house number. (Don't know if Johann may be a brother of Wenzl Aurednjk the elder???) Anyway, just thought I'd include this one too, as it's another example of the Host... location.
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I am not sure if I am answering the correct post. Yesterday I mentioned I had contacted Blanka Lednicka of Czech Genealogy for Beginners asking about the custom of which family a newly married couple decided to live with. Here is her answer ... she said it all depended on the family.
For instance if the family of the newly married wife perhaps did not have a son to work the farm they might choose to live with the wife's family. Or if a man married a widow he might live with her and her family and work the farm. According to her there is no set custom or rule ... it varied from family to family although as we have noticed they generally settled with the family of the wife.
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Yes, I am the one who asked that. Thank you. So it all depended on family need. I just read Blanka's blog post about the number of people that lived in the small cottages and it was unreal. Multiple generations and children living in two room cottages! Thank you for asking her that question.
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I am going to go back and look through Hyskov again. I was concentrating on Brozek (looking for the Z as an identifier) as well as House No 2. I will rescan timeframes that should be around the mother's birth. Wow, I would not have recognized Aurednik from that Book 11 post. Will see how that pans out for a lead. Thanks Stephanie. So very nice of you to help!
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Your welcome ... and it was nice to see her website again. I tend to forget about but it is filled with so much free information. I was also surprised to learn how the generations lived together in such small spaces .... I was aware of that but sometime seeing it in black and white you realize what life was like for them. I believe she is also adding some instructions on how to use the various archives. I know how to use the Prague and Pilsen archives but the others still remain a mystery. I will repeat again for others .. Blanka's website is Czech Genealogy for Beginners ... easy to find on the internet.
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Just found Hostim as part of Svaty Jan (Holy Johann/St Johann). You were right on target. I found Auredniks! I cannot thank you enough for finding them. Thank you, thank you!!
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Oh I'm so glad you found that! I hope it's the right Hostim with your Auredniks in it! For some reason I really felt a strong pull to help figure out this mystery of where they were from, so I'm glad it could be helpful. Good luck with your searches!
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Great job. Thanks so much for your help.
Betseylee Browning
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Stephanie, just wanted to let you know that I found the Hyskov connection. The name is Prozek House 25 that was easy to read once I found the marriage record for the couple in Hostim! Again, thank you!
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Oh I'm so happy you solved it! Great job! I should have thought to mention that 'B's and 'P's can be interchangeable, so it could be spelled Brozek or Prozek -- glad you found that. 😊
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