Identify correct wife of Stephan Martin

mariepearlmartincarroll1

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP5V-ZFH6

Hello, I am comparing two marriage records of Stephan Martin to determine which wife is correct. Please compare records of Stephan Martin marriage. same date, different locations, different wives. My family came from Adolzhausen, so the place raised a question of correctness. I can read only little of this old script. Ich bedanke mich im voraus. Marie Carroll

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP5V-ZFH4

sylviaelchinger1

Both the links you supplied lead to an indexed marriage record for Stephan Martin to Elisabeth Kopf. Neither one allows a user to view the original record.

mariepearlmartincarroll1

I am sorry the records do not open. I am trying more routes.

mariepearlmartincarroll1

Here are the original marriage records: Stephen Martin married June 6 1667 to 2 different women in 2 different places. Hopefully the links open. Thank you

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ5-5JD8?cc=3015626&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQP5V-ZFH4

mariepearlmartincarroll1

Ok so it appears that the links will not open, nor can I paste a screenshot. Maybe we can try it be the person ID number. Problem as above: The records as transcribed show Stephan Martin married these 2 women on the same day 105 km apart.

Stephan Martin M5PG-RY9

Anna Elisabeth Goppelt KZ7M-P8T

Elisabetha Kopf GT84-BCV

sylviaelchinger1

I was able to open the first link and get to the record. It is for the marriage of Stephan Martin, son of Hans Martin of Adolt[z]hausen, Amt Hollenbach, on 4 June 1667, to Anna Elisabeth, daughter of Hans Goppelt. The banns were read three times here (Riedlingshausen) and in Adolt[z]heim. At the end of the entry, it notes that the bride and groom left and went to live in the groom's homeland.

The second entry has to be viewed at a FamilySearch Center, so I couldn't access it.

Often in these old records, when a bride and groom were from different communities, the banns would be read in both places, and the marriage would be recorded in both places. So it's quite possible that the second entry in Adolt[z]hausen is recording the same event. The mystery is why it says Elisabeth Kopf instead of Anna Elisabeth Goppelt. Clerical error? Indexing error?

JohnsonGreg

Sylvia is correct. The two records are available on ancestry and the second misindexed (and with some spelling variation). They appear to be the same couple, just recorded in both home parishes:

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61023/images/1187113-00132?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=885745fe-3891-4154-b943-fd2df523eaa7&usePUB=true&_phsrc=xWz5674&_phstart=successSource&pId=7589647 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61023/images/1732350-00362?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=885745fe-3891-4154-b943-fd2df523eaa7&usePUB=true&_phsrc=xWz5674&_phstart=successSource&pId=16102883

The entry in Adolzhausen says the bride Elizabeth is the daughter of Hans Michael Kopholtz of Rielingshausen, Marbach and that Stephan Martin is from here (Adolzhausen). It gives some additional information about her father but I cannot read it. The entry in Rielingshausen gives her father's name as Hans Michel Goppeltz/Goppoltz.

mariepearlmartincarroll1

Thank you so much for your help with this. If I understand the explanation, there are two recordings in both home village churches. Deciphering the spelling of the names from the different records made it more confusing. Your translation and insight of the additional information (moving to the groom's homeland) is very helpful. The spelling of Kopholtz is similar to Kopf. Are the G and K similar in old script? If so, I should go with Goppoltz.

Again, thank you so much. Vielen Dank!

sylviaelchinger1

G and K aren't similar in the script, but are definitely similar in pronunciation, especially in some dialects. So it's not surprising to find the two letters interchanged for the surname. I have an ancestor named Puschmann, but regularly find records under Buschmann - the B/P pronunciation is same thing as the G/K issue. Clerics wrote what they heard before spelling was standardized.

JohnsonGreg

Since Rielingshausen is Anna Elisabeth's home parish it is more likely that you will find records under the spelling used there, but be aware that even within one parish the spelling might vary a little. And add to that that Indexer's might have a lot of difficulty with the name so look for a wide variety of spelling variations of the name Goppoltz.

I was curious about the spelling that might have been used in her baptism record so I looked at the Rielingshausen records between 1630 and 1650 without any luck. But I may have just missed it.

I did find her burial record 19 Dec, 1679 in Adolzhausen (completely misindexed on ancestry) which simply says:

"19th December, Stephan Martin's wife Anna Elisabeth is buried, her age 35 years."

so she was born ~1644. That will give you a narrower window to look for baptism records.

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61023/images/1732350-00414?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=xWz5774&_phstart=successSource&pId=16103524

mariepearlmartincarroll1

Thank you so much for your help. I so appreciate your insight and helpfulness. This gives more to go on. I have walked the village streets and worshiped in the little church in Adolzhausen many times, so this information is priceless. I wish I could make out the old records, so thank you so much to those who helped me.

Vielen Dank, Marie