Translation Request - Dutch to English
This is an Indo-Dutch record. My great-great-grandfather Marinus Jacobus van der Pauwert was born to Johannes van der Pauwert and an unknown Javanese woman, whom I was hoping to find in this marriage certificate of Marinus and his wife Antoinette, but I can't make out enough words to find her name. If someone could help translate, I'd be eternally grateful.
I'd love to get the full translation, however I recognize that's a big request.
Specifically, as mentioned, I'm looking for the parents of Marinus Jacobus van der Pauwert. I can read that his father was Johannes van der Pauwert, but can't make out his mother.
In this image I can see Antoinette Lamberdina Moll and her parents Lambert Moll and Maria Antoinette Lowes.
Below is the information on the original microfilm that I found if that makes it easier to read than the screenshots attached.
Marriage Record:
Marinus Jacobus van der Pauwert
Antoinette Lamberdina Moll
October 25 1897
Civil records, Jakarta, Indonesia, 1829-1945
Marriages, Europeans 1864-1886, 1889, 1891-1893, 1892, 1896-1898
https://www.familysearch.org/ark%3A/61903/3%3A1%3A3Q9M-CSFR-K9HH-7?i=2877
Thank You!
-Ryan
コメント
-
The link itself is cut/copy pasted with a fencing frame,and became invalid.Make sure to copy only the link and offer it again without the fencing frame,so i can go to the actual document itself for a read and translate.The snaps are quite fuzzy to view here.Check the link after hitting 'post comment' to make sure it works.
As far as i can see she , the native woman was from Surabaja/Soerabaja , named Pauca or something , but difficult to read like this
0 -
Mod note - the correct link is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFR-K9HH-7?i=2877 but it appears that it can only be viewed at a center or affiliate library.
1 -
Still, as he has snaps of the pages ,he must have had acces, probably via Affiliate or Fam-center. Possibly the library containing these entries is availiable for research only..., Maybe he can still repost a better snap of it, this looks like a copy of the copy of the...anyway, should this path stall, i can always dump it to the printer/set at max contrast, print, then overdraw with a very sharp hard pencil.
0 -
@RyanKerby Etc,....
Ps, in the dokument i could read that he was Assistent-resident in Probolingo , and people with these titles are very well documented and spoken of,..;also quite famous sometimes , and he has his own entry on Wikipedia.(mother mentioned here as unknown) . Try to feed the whole page to google translate ;..txtbatches only please.=>https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinus_Jacobus_van_der_Pauwert
enjoy
0 -
@Maile L Thank you for fixing the link, i didn't catch that when it posted. You are correct the link goes to microfilm images that are only available to view at the Family Search Centers. I took screen shots of the images for that reason and they are the best screenshots/views of the image I could grab. I don't foresee a way to make that better. I'm in the process of trying to figure out if I can request a high resolution copy of the image but am struggling navigating around the FamilySearch help...we'll see.
@Adrien Kintziger yes, I had access and don't think I'll get a better image. I included the link in hopes that if people had time they could access the link next time they are at the FSC and review. We'll see if anyone has time and can help. :) I agree, I think the name is above Johannes and is something like Pauca but don't know if that's a last or first name...hard to tell what's before that. It almost looks like it says vrouw Pauca "woman Pauca" but that doesn't make sense given the section says "zoon van" but I don't know.
I appreciate you Googling Marinus, yes he was the assistant resident in Probolingo and I've found information on him. I wouldn't say he's famous, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I'd like to think i've done some extensive research on him, but could be wrong. The wiki page you found is one that we created to document him. We had some help from a fellow researcher and he took the information from my cousin and myself to populate the page, so unfortunately I already have all that information as I was the one to provide it. :)
I don't know if it helps with the translation, but if people are interested here is Marinus Jacobus van der PAUWERT's Family Search ID: KZPP-56Y
In his record I've tried attaching every source/memory/picture I can find to document who he was in search of finding his parents.
@Adrien Kintziger what do you mean by "Try to feed the whole page to google translate ;..txtbatches only please" Google Translate has been a godsend! My problem with this document is how hard it is to read. Without knowing Dutch, I'm just guessing at letters. If I could make out some of the letters and guess a word, then I might have something, but that's what's brought me to this group in hopes that someone might be able to guess at some words and figure out what that caption with Marinus and his father might say about his mother.
Thanks again everyone!
0 -
So I've been staring at this for probably an hour...the last sentence where I believe it to be talking about Marinus' parents, I think says something like this:
"derjarige zoon van de ??? vrouw Pauca ???(jonden?) beroep wonende te Sorabaja en kind door Johannes van der Pauwert, overleden"
Translating to:
"adult son of the ??? woman Pauca ??? profession living in Sorabaja and child by Johannes van der Pauwert, deceased"
What do we think?
0 -
This is the sentence,
Meerder-jarige zoon, ="son of legal age" from the native (inlandsche) vrouw Pauca , without profession(zonder beroep) living at Soerabaja(Surabaja) and recognised (erkend) by Johannes etc..
Recognising a child legally can be done with a married woman, also unmarried even long after the childs birth
I think Pauca is a given name,not a family name, altough i could be wrong;if fed at the prompt turns out to be valid, existing and Indonesian. I will do the whole translate this evening-
0 -
First the snip with Marinus Jacobus etc..
At present time the 25 th of Oktober 1897 appeared before us "Adolf Glaudino Falette?) (done at Batavia).Then unreadable term,then term with added stroke, aged 25 yrs,profession civil clerck, given as availiable to serve the resident of Probolingo, for this moment on holiday at Batavia , not previously married,son of legal age from the native woman Pauca without profession etc,....
next, the snip of Antoinette.
Antoinette Lamberdina Moll, born at Batavia age 19 without profession living at Batavia, not previously married , not of legal age daughter of Lambert Moll deceased and his wife Marie Antoinette Lowes? Howes? without profession living at Batavia.
The above annotation in the margin gives approval for the term with the added stroke, and 10 words added to the document. It mentions a name of an outpost probably located in the former Celebes.(Sulawesi)
I viewed the doc on the retina display of my state of the art Apple!, to read the middle part of the bigger document as a whole,but it contains nothing of importance to you, as it gives the legal framework for the marriage, says the couple is aware of the matrimonal obligations from the civil book of law, says the marriage -intend is made public in advance etc...and that the birthcertificates were presented at the desk.
Hope this helps.
1 -
@Adrien Kintziger this is so awesome, thank you so much for spending the time to read through and translate this for me!
This document confirms the information I had estimated through research but without having solid evidence. It even goes one step further with identifying the mother "Pauca" which will be my next step in trying to figure out. I knew Marinus was recognized by Johannes but once again didn't have solid evidences. It's interesting that at the age of 25, even Marinus must not have known who his mother was given he couldn't identify her on the marriage record. I'm now curious, if Marinus had adoptive parents given his father passed when Marinus was only 5. With all my research though I've not found evidences of that.
I've been told that birth records from Makassar aren't available, but I did see some microfilm for that 1871 for Dutch East Indies that next time I'm in the FSC, I'll have to pull up, wish me luck.
Anyways, thank again for all your help!
-Ryan
0 -
Pauca and native (inlandsche) fully implies Indonesian, not Chinese, keep that in mind? also, adoptive...hm, i have doubts given the timeframe and the fact that the child was of mixed origine, so not in demand for both sides, also, the Dutch rulers were a minority among the vast Chinese (imported by the Dutch )and native people. Given the fact that Marinus seems to be very well educated, i would suggest the idea that he was taken in the care of the Church and became an intern to be raised as an intermediate, both worlds both languages , won't walk away.... , He published some newspaper artikels in the Netherlands,and negotiated some slack for the natives.
0 -
@RyanKerby btw , whilst trawling the web i came across the deathcertificate of a son of him., If you like a translate...
https://www.openarchieven.nl/nha:5DED7D44-9D31-4123-8CA2-2EBF658FD847
0 -
@Adrien Kintziger don't know how I missed your response earlier this year, but I appreciate your feedback and offer to translate the son's info. That one is more legible and I've been able to get the gist of the information through google translate.
Having said that, I do have another translate request from an old military ledger, that based off of your initial translation I was wondering if you could help identify any additional information about Johannes or his wife/child.
The ledger is found here: https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzoeken/archief/2.10.50/invnr/6/file/NL-HaNA_2.10.50_6_0158 (i hope that link works correctly)
There is a lot of information there, and from what I could decipher I focused in on these areas below where I think it's talking about recognizing the child Marinus Jacobus Van Der Pauwert (nameless in the ledger)
Here is another location in the same row that i believe is talking about recognized child
My hope would be somewhere in here it talks about "Pauca" or a marriage, or something.
There are a bunch of other references such as No. 2374, No. 30, etc. that I don't know if it's calling out another section in the ledger, or some other artifact, but maybe ones of those points to the information too…hard to know.
Anyways, thanks for taking another look at my family history!
-Ryan
0 -
The first green frame is a message about an allowance of f225 that is awarded to a child that was recognised by him after the marriage(taken on the book as his) (natuurlijk erkend kind), and the second is about a previous allowance of f150 to a natural 'erkend kind' the same. Then some smaller previous recorded payments , and in the first paper,also allowances for his sisters are spoken of , and that his corpse after
death was taken to Utrecht (probably buried there.) Also , it is recorded that he died of a gunshot to the head.
0 -
and died in Atjeh
0 -
Awesome, thank you so much! So it recognizes, he was married, and that he claimed a child, but nothing about either of them when/who they were, bummer.
Also, interesting about his sisters and shipping the body to Utrecht…that helps a lot as far as where he might have been buried. I knew he was shot in the head and died in Aceh…I had just assumed he was buried in the military cemetery in Aceh and have been trying to get info there, so new record to search out in Utrecht I guess.
Thank you!
-RK
0 -
Second scan, first sentence right hand side,; says as follows ' The urn with his corpse(ashes) at Utrecht with requested discount,49 f(guilder,)'..rest of the sentence unclear to me…
So assuming he was brought to Utrecht would be more than tempting.Ill try to check the link tomorrow.
0
