Wald ZH - haushaltungsrodel -1812- Kunz&Pfenninger - widow's notes
My main questions are about two places listed next to or just below the wife in the haushaltungsrodel/census/family page I am attaching the other records to show the same words on other records for this family.
--- Haushaltungsrodel --- Page 115 - household of Felix Kunz and Anna Barbara Pfenninger.
I'm trying to determine whether the youngest child on this page, Hans Jakob Kunz, could be my great grandfather, but I can't confirm or rule him out yet, because I can't find this family after the 8 Oct 1822 death of his father Felix Kunz. I'm hoping that the notes by the mother's name give her origin and possibly where she lived after her husband's death.
At the top of the page (115) is "bru 116" and a matching "bru 115" on page 116 which suggests Felix and Ehrhard Kunz were brothers. In fact, I found baptism records matching their names and dates which confirms this. They are the sons of Hs Jakob Kunz and Regula Schoch.
Also at the top of the page is "zu Tobel" [Tobeli is a place in Wald parish.] But does the "zu' indicate that the family moved from their 1812 dwelling in Hinternord to Tobeli, or simply that Felix came from there?
Father's line: Born "22 Nov 1785" (matches Wald baptism date). "Felix Kunz" [crossed out because died after 1812] "ob 1822 Augst" (Fits Wald death date 8 August 1822).
Mother's line: Born "27 Nov 1787" (matches birth date given in their marriage record.) "Anna Barb. Pfeninger" "Alt" and a name starting with B or E. THIS WORD ALSO APPEARS IN MARRIAGE RECORD - SEE OTHER ATTACHMENT. I think this refers to her pre-marriage home.
"cop. Sept 1811" (Fits marriage date 22 Sep 1811). This is followed by a word starting with L or H maybe. WORD ALSO APPEARS IN FELIX DEATH RECORD - SEE OTHER ATTACHMENT. Following by "1822 VI O" (possibly Oct 6 1822.)
Thank you for whatever help you can give me. Apologies for this long-winded request.
Marcia Kunz
Attachments are the 1812 Haushaltungsrodel, 1811 marriage record, 1822 death record of Felix. All are from Wald parish.
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Unfortunately the images don't show up.
BTW: I have deleted the "Translation request" from the topic title. I know it says so on the start page - but as nearly all posts here are translation requests, to state that explicitely doesn't really make sense.
Best regards - Wolf
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Thank you, Wolf. I will try to post the documents again. I think the problem might have been caused by using the "upload file" option rather than "upload image."
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1812 Haushaltungsrodel:
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1811 marriage record (for comparison to haushaltungsrodel information):
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1822 death record felix kunz (for comparison to haushaltungsrodel information):
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You are correct - Felix (p.115) and Erhard (p.116) were brothers.
"Zu Tobel" implies the family lived in Tobel ("von Tobel" would imply they were citizens of Tobel). Tobel (= ravine) is very common for location names, usually not communities or places of living, however. Oberer Tobel (today Obertöbeli) is a single farmhouse. One would have to see a few other pages for comparison (what sort of places names show up?) to be sure. Usually Tobel would be the place of living when the Haushaltungsrodel was started: which year was that?
Hinternord [a(b) d(em) hintern Ort - see below] is a hamlet, part of Wald.
Next to Anna Barbara Pfenninger I read "… Bleich..": Bleichi is a modern building in Wald - did something exist in 1820? Likely yes: in the death register the first entry (03.01.1822) is Hs. Georg Pfenninger auf der Bleichi, Wald - so this is likely where Anna Barbara is from. And in the marriage entry it says Felix Kunz a(b) d(em) hintern Ort & A. Barbara Pfenninger ab der Bleich.
I had most problems with the expression directly below Pfenninger. It shows up in the death register as well - and from the position it must be the cause of death. Although the first letter doesn't really look like an H - I am fairly confident that it reads hydrop(s) = dropsy.
I have already mentioned the discussion on Kunz of Wald in the Geneal-Forum before. To confirm my interpretations I would recommend you post this situation there (registration is free and without obligation). This will attract the attention of several other experienced Swiss genealogists; furthermore the previous contributors to the discussion will be informed by mail. You were talking about a new post in your comment https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/514962/#Comment_514962: you should NOT start a new topic, but "answer" in the existing one. The principle structure of the Switzerland subforum there is that we discuss ALL questions of a given family (defined by name an place of citizenship) in a single topic - but only this specific family. Details on related families (e.g. by marriage) should be discussed in separate topics, which can be linked to.
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https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-farbe&layers=ch.swisstopo.zeitreihen,ch.bfs.gebaeude_wohnungs_register,ch.bav.haltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swisstlm3d-wanderwege,ch.astra.wanderland-sperrungen_umleitungen&layers_opacity=1,1,1,0.8,0.8&layers_visibility=true,false,false,false,false&layers_timestamp=18641231,,,,&E=2711432.50&N=1237156.50&zoom=9&swipe_ratio=0.46 might interest you: it compares a modern map with the map of 1864. I had searched for "Bleichi" on the modern map and placed it behind the arrows-icon. Bleichi is not indicated on the old map - but you'll find Tobel.
BTW @Daniel57704 : would you have any comments on my interpretation?
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@WSeelentag I think your interpretation is correct. Because I could not see the other two attachments, I waited with my answer - probably a bit too long :-)
Most likely 'Bleichi' was the name of a factory where a material was bleached (see https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aargau/freiamt/wohlen-die-unglaubliche-geschichte-der-bleichi-das-modernste-was-wohlen-ende-des-19-jahrhunderts-zu-bieten-hatte-ld.2246446?reduced=true). I don't know enough about the history of industrialization in the Zurich Oberland. A local historian would therefore have to judge whether this was true at the time.
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"Most likely 'Bleichi' was the name of a factory where a material was bleached."
We may have to differentiate between pre-industrial and industrial periods.
On the modern map the buildings "Bleichi" (on Jonastrasse and Bleichiweg) look like an industrial complex. The name indicates that it used to be a bleaching factory, although today there are all sorts of other enterprises there.
On the other hand, linnen had to be bleached long before industrialisation. On https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/ostschweiz/wie-st-gallen-konstanz-den-schneid-abkaufte-ld.1122028 you'll find an image how todays "Kreuzbleiche" in the West of St.Gallen looked in 1545. So a localisation named "Bleichi" could have existed long before industrialisation, although not mentioned on the map of 1864. The location is next to the small Jona river ... plausible for a bleaching region.
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