Wald ZH - baptism - 1819 - Kunz - witness name
I would love your help on this, my first question. The baptism in question is the first record on the right hand page. Can you read the surname of the male witness?
Here is how I read it, but corrections are welcome.
page 229. [Baptized] Whit Monday, 31 May [1819]. Parents Felix Kunz [of] Hinternord and Barbara Pfenninger. Born the 30th Hans Jakob ([confirmed?] 1837). Witnesses Hans Jakob ---?--- in the Krinner and Regula Pfgr [Pfenninger].
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page 229. [Baptized] Whit Monday, 31 May [1819]. Parents: Felix Kunz [in] Hinternord and Barbara Pfenninger. Born the 30th Hans Jakob (ex? 1837). Witnesses: Hans Jakob Kindlimann in the Krinner(?) and Regula Pfgr [Pfenninger].
Hinternord is part of Wald ZH and no independent place of citizenship (indicated by "of …") - their place of citizenship will have been Wald.
I'm not sure about the "ex": there are several entries "ex …." with years 1836-1838, so people would have been 17 to 19 years old - rather late for confirmation. As often the date of death is noted in that location ex = exitus, Latin for died, comes to mind … but then in one entry we have both (ex 1837 and ob[iit = died] 24.2.1843). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be records of confirmations - but the "Haushaltungsrodel" might help.
I am also at a loss at Krinner/Krinnen: there is a Krinnensberg in Schmidrüti - but that's too far away to make sense.
BTW - there is a topic Kunz von Wald ZH on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26741.
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I'm not sure about the "ex": ....
I had posted the question on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=32686 and got a response from Peter.D: "ex" stands most likely for "examiniert" [= examined] - the examination required to be confirmed had been passed. Peter.D agrees, however, that 17 to 19 years old is rather late, 16 would be more common.
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"I am also at a loss at Krinner/Krinnen: there is a Krinnensberg in Schmidrüti - but that's too far away to make sense."
I realize now that the familysearch wiki page for Wald parish in Zurich has a list of places within the parish of Wald. Could that be Kindlimann's residence?
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First of all, thank you for pointing out that "ex or cx" preceded "1837." I had thought it was 'x' only.
Also, thanks for telling me about Geneal-forum. Something Peter D. said there reminded me that I had thought that 1837 might be the year the person went away for compulsory military training. That "ex" only appears on males as far as I have checked the Wald parish records. (In that case "ex" might refer to exit and/or examination to exit. That's a joke, but might there be some truth to it?)
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Yes - is says Hs. Jakob Kindlimann in der Krinnen(?) - indicating that this is where Hs. Jakob Kindlimann lived.
And https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Wald_Parish,_Z%C3%BCrich,_Switzerland_Genealogy actually mentions Krinnen as a location in Wald ZH … this made me curious 😉 …so I finally found Chrinnen on the map.
https://search.ortsnamen.ch/de/record/4014121/ explains: The name is derived from the Swiss-German noun Chrinne(n) 'small, elongated depression, notch, gully; natural depression in the ground, rift between mountains, mountain gorge; notch in rocks; narrow water channel running from mountain peaks' and describes the location of the settlement in the steep terrain incision with the Diezikonerbach stream.
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"Also, thanks for telling me about Geneal-forum."
You are welcome to register with the forum (free and without any obligation) and add your questions to the above mentioned topic on Kunz von Wald: this discussion includes already a line emigrating to the USA. On the forum your questions will be seen by a large number of Swiss resident researchers.
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Thank you. I will definitely register there. However, that brings up a related question about translation. Perhaps I should start a new post for this? What is a better translation method than Google Translate.
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Yes, I had seen Krinnen in the list on the familysearch wiki page but accidentally erased it from my sentence before posting my message. I wondered why you discussed it. I'm sorry you did the extra work but thrilled that it led to your going to the ortsnamen site and giving the link to it.
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"Yes, I had seen Krinnen in the list on the familysearch wiki page but accidentally erased it from my sentence before posting my message. I wondered why you discussed it."
Quite simple: I wanted to know what's written there, to confirm the location name.
"Thank you. I will definitely register there. However, that brings up a related question about translation. Perhaps I should start a new post for this? What is a better translation method than Google Translate?"
To answer your question first: https://www.deepl.com/translator - also online and free (there is a professional version for companies - not necessary for "people like us").
Why are you asking? In case you are planning to post in Geneal-Forum: there English is fine! The forum is multilingual (mainly German, French, English) and all participants may use their mother tongue. Members not understanding a given language can always use DeepL themselves: it is often (e.g. when a translation is not perfect) better to have the original as well.
Or are you asking for translations of online information. like with ortsnamen.ch? With this sort of text a common problem are abbreviations - always a problem with computer translations. The translation above was done by DeepL - but after I had expanded all abbreviations. BTW - this contribution are my own words 😉. It is only when I have a text in German, translating it with DeepL and just checking it, is easier (I'm lazy).
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"To answer your question [about a good translator program] first: https://www.deepl.com/translator - also online and free (there is a professional version for companies - not necessary for "people like us").
Why are you asking? In case you are planning to post in Geneal-Forum: there English is fine! The forum is multilingual (mainly German, French, English) and all participants may use their mother tongue. Members not understanding a given language can always use DeepL themselves: it is often (e.g. when a translation is not perfect) better to have the original as well.
Or are you asking for translations of online information. like with ortsnamen.ch?"
I was asking for translations of online information such as Geneal-Forum or the cantonal archives. I wasn't very worried about posting in English on Geneal-Forum but it is still reassuring to read your comment that English is fine.
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"BTW - there is a topic Kunz von Wald ZH on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26741."
I did get around to looking at this topic yesterday, but didn't respond to you. I am probably related to that Kunz family, but Samuel Kunz, born in 1870 in Wald, was considerably younger than my immigrant ancestor, Hs Jakob Kunz, born 1819. My ancestor and his brother Johannes immigrated to the U.S. in 1848.
I will make a separate post to introduce myself and my research questions.
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