Let try it another way: I need someone to proof a Czech translation, please

Martha Murray

Hi

A lot of looks, but no responses. Let’s try a different approach. I’m going to attempt to translate the record and you can fill in the blanks. Someone should proof read it, please

I don’t speak or read Czech. But I’m an excellent records translator. I cut my genealogy teeth on German records.

Thank you!

 Here goes:

Born: 14 April Baptized: 18 April 1876 House 24 (———— probably the priest)

Anezka Marie katolická ženský manželský 

Vajgl Jan kat. šenkýř z Týniště syn Jana Vaigla tesaře z Týniště, 24 matri Alzbety rozene Jelink z Krasonovic okres i hejtmanství Kut. Hora.

Marie kat. dcera Jana Cernovskiho rolnika z Bilan 56 matky Anny rozene Kurek z Horusic okres i hejtmanství Kut. Hora.

Godmother: Barbara Polak z Bahna 13

Witnesses:

Josef Cernovsky krejčí Bilan 6

Marie Vajglova dcera Jana Vaigla rolnika z Týniště 27                                              

 

LuciaV

Hello, me again. Let me have a look at your record. Good job on the transcription. I can translate from Czech and Slovak but am not very good at actually reading the records.

Born on April 14th, baptized on April 18 1876. House No. 24

Name: Anežka Marie

Religion: catholic (katolické)

Sex: female (ženské)

Legitimate child

Father: Jan Vajgl, catholic, innkeeper (šenkýř), from Týniště. Son of Jan Vajgl, carpenter from Týniště 24. Mother Alžběta, née Jelinek from Krasoňovice, district and also county of Kutná Hora.

Mother: Marie, catholic, daughter of Jan Černovský, farmer (rolník) from Bílany 6. Mother Anna, née Kuřík / Kuřék from Horušice No. ? (there is literally a question mark written there), district and also county of Kutná Hora.

Midwife (not a godmother - it says "porodní bába" in Czech which is midwife): Barbara Polák from Bahno (fun fact: bahno literally means "mud") 13.

Witnesses (which I guess could also be godparents?): Josef Černovský, tailor (krejčí) from Bílany 6. Marie Vaiglová, daughter of Jan Vaigl, farmer (rolník) from Týniště 27.

If you'd like help with any other translations, let me know :)

Martha Murray

https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4483/42

Hi Lucia

I've learned a lot since I posted this record. If I can get it transcribd to Czech... I can take it the rest of the way. I'm even getting used to the shifting endings.

I'm used to German records. They mention the sponsor and two witnesses... never the midwife by name. Only if the baby was stillborn or emergency baptized do we even know she exists.

I've learned Czech records name the midwife and the witnesses. As in the German records, one of the witnesses could be the godparent like Marie Vajgl.

I have three generations of records for this line. Every question helps clear up several records.

My problem with the records are odd added content. Random dates or other information that makes no sense to me.

Case in point: https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4483/39 Joseph Vajgl ... is that date in the margin his death date? It was added much later (the boldness and the real pen).

https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4483/44 Alois Vajgl ... what is the chaplain's surname? What is the flourish under beneath it. And what are the initials before baba?

https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4483/6 Joseph Vajgl... the sentence under the midwife?

Here is a random question: Czechs are big on číslo domu. Do they have house registers?

Once I know the rhythm of the records I'll be off and running.

Thank you for your help. I'm extremely grateful as there aren't any indexes to help you.

LuciaV

Oh yes, Czech (and also Slovak, which is my mother tongue) is a very fusional and gendered language, so many different endings for every word :)

Midwife is also news to me. I (almost exclusively) work with the Hungarian and Latin records from Slovakia, never seen a midwife mentioned there. Also, there are almost always 2 godparents in Slovak records, that's why I suggested the witnesses may be godparents.

About the margin dates. It could definitely be a death date. Reminds of these "notes" in records I'm used to (check the last column). And these are definitely death dates so maybe the Czechs did it on the margin since there's no column for notes in their records.

Alois' chaplain's name I'm reading as Jos (probably short for Josef) Vašák. The whole line I'm reading as "křtil Jos Vašak, kapl." which would be "baptized by Jos(ef) Vašák, chaplain".

Baba question: I'm looking at the first record on the page and if I'm reading correctly it says "zkoušená bába" which (after some googling) I think should mean an actually trained midwife as opposed to just an old village lady midwife. The initials are probably ZK bába.

Joseph Vajgl... Do you mean the text in the "NAME" column? If yes, I'm not sure if this is a "midwife" column. In the original Anežka record you posted, there is writing in pen saying "porodní bába" and there is a line drawn from top to bottom. In Joseph's record, there's no such writing so I'm not sure what's happening here. I also cannot really read it. But it seems to be very similar as the writing in the last record of the page so it's probably something general. Sorry, can't really help with this one.

House registers: Wouldn't really call them house registers but yes, there were censuses and they were made in a way where each house had its own census page (not like the U.S. census with all the neighbors on the same page). Try checking this page out. As I told you, I don't research in the Czechia/Bohemia area (so I don't know how much is actually available) but the censuses were a great help to my research in Slovakia, especially the 1869 Hungarian one and the 1930 and 1940 Czechoslovak ones.

Martha Murray

Hi Lucia

Wow that gives me a lot to digest. Thank you!

Growing up Catholic we had one godparent usually the same gender as the child. The Germans have one sponsor and two witnesses. They are big on witnesses... there must be 2 witnesses for a burial. Which why I thought the two were witnesses. But I agree they must be godparents.

That's what I thought ... that midwife must have been good as I see her name everywhere. With infant mortality high you would want the best.

In Germany a house not the neighborhood is recorded. The people in it are listed thru all events of their lives until they leave or die. Great resource if you are trying to piece a family together.

Joseph Vajgl third column reads Josph baptized by chaplain name. Under that is a flourish or drawing...why?

Column1 bottom is the midwife's information. Under that is random numbers... what are they?

I'm grateful that you got back to me. I've learned a lot.

Thank you!

LuciaV

Hello,

yes, I grew up (semi) catholic too, and yes, also just one godmother for me. I suppose that is the norm now but from the old records (18-19th century) the catholic baptisms in my area had two godparents.

Ah okay, I see what you mean now about Josef's record. About the "drawing"... I see it in multiple records on the page (but not all). I have no idea what it is. Could it be maybe the chaplain's signature? Just an idea, but honestly I have no clue.

About the numbers... I tried googling what "lift: (or is it litt) bojo: (bajo?)" means but I had no luck. You can see the same kinda thing happening in the record below yours but this time in the "father" column. The only difference is the fraction in the middle of the numbers. Josef's is 22/11 and the other boy's is 17/1. Could those be dates? November 22 and January 17? With the year 1876?? So maybe Josef's says something that happened on November 22, 1876?? This is pure speculation on my part tho so do not take this as a fact. Just brainstorming.

Julia Szent-Györgyi

I know nothing about Czech records, but in Hungarian registers, later dates like the ones in the left margin are often the date a register extract was issued for that event (and the abbreviations before the numbers are often some language's version of "extract issued"). Granted, in Hungarian registers, they're typically in the remarks column or in the right-hand margin, not the left, but that's likely just a difference in learned habits.

The flourish with the chaplain's signature is probably his title or order, perhaps VDM (Verbi Dei Minister: 'Minister of God's Word') or similar. I think it mostly marks the signature as a signature, rather than just someone else writing down his name.

Martha Murray

Hi

Wow that gives me a lot to digest.

Thank you!