Marriage of Giuseppe Sorci & Catorina Speciale
Thanks to the suggestion of @Cousin Vinny I was able to obtain the 1906 wedding record for this couple thru the family search lookup service. It was a great find, but it came with some disappointing news as well. It turns out both of the brides' parents were dead, so I was unable to get her parent's ages. When the record came something must have gone wrong because 1/2 the record was crystal clear, but it seemed like the record did not fully load, so I can't read the notes at the bottom half that were handwritten.
I have all of the ancestors on the grooms' side pretty well researched. It is the brides' ancestors that I am starting at ground zero. I spent a great deal of time of trying to find the marriage record of the brides' parent's wedding in Bagheria but have struck out so far. Their names are Antonio(Antonico) Speciale and Giuseppa Rotolo.
I don't have a way of linking the full record, so let me post this first. Any help would be appreciated- Carl
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- Cart driver;
- No, it's the same town + 'while alive', meaning dead at the time of writing;
- Looks like Antonino, deceased.
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@DangKwei Thank you, I was hoping that it might be a different town or area. I am really striking out on finding the brides parents marriage record. So is that occupation spelled Carrettiere or Parrettiere?
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It's carrettiere.
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Dear @Harleynut97 ,
I fully agree with @DangKwei comment!
Could you share please more info about the bride and her parents? Do you already have a tree in FS?
Thank you so much!
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@Massimo C. Thank you for confirming the translation that @DangKwei made. I have not found any FS family trees with her in the tree. I did find one on ancestry but did not mention her parents. As of right now, I am on the ground floor. The three things I am looking for the most (and have failed at finding) is
1) Birth Record of Catorina Speciale somewhere between 1883-1886 This would hopefully give me her parent's ages. Her February 21,1906 marriage says she was age 20 which would put her birth year in 1886. However I have a couple of USA documents, 1 census and even her death index says about 1883. Other documents however have 1886. But I really believe she was born in 1886.
2) A marriage record of Antonio Speciale & Giuseppa Rotolo (Catorina's parents) which would confirm their parent's names & ages.
3) A death record of either Antonio Speciale or Giuseppa Rotolo they both died prior to 1906
-It doesn't appear any children of Giuseppe Sorci or Caterina Speciale were born in Italy, all in the USA.
-Important From Catarina's passenger list she had a sister named Anna Maria still in Bagheria.
-This is also important, I found this document that could be a birth record Catorina's mother, Giuseppa Rotolo. I really can not confirm that this is the same Giuseppa, but if it is, then I have very good records moving up. But I really need a link to Caterina. I did look up the record in Antenni and the index does match the record.
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@Massimo C. Thank you for confirming @DangKwei translation. I have not been able to find any FS family trees that has this Catorina Speciale in them. A year ago I did find a Ancestry Tree that had the correct family, but didn't have any info on her parents. Basically, I am at ground zero on Catorina Speciale and her ancestors.
-I do know her parents were Antonio Speciale & Giuseppa Rotolo and her passenger list says she had a sister remaining in Bagheria named Antonia Maria Speciale
-Giuseppe and Catorina had no children in Italy, all were born in the USA.
The things I am seeking the most (and failing) is the following
1) Birth Record of Catorina Speciale 1883 - 1886 Her 2/21/1906 marriage record says she was 20 which would put her born about 1886. Her 1909 passenger list says she was 23 (1886) Her death Index and one census says about 1883, but other documents say abt 1886. I really believe she was born in 1886.
2) Marriage Record of Antonio (Antonino) Speciale & Giuseppa Rotolo - I have no idea if this was a first or second marriage for either of these spouses.
3) Death records of Antonio Speciale and Giuseppa Rotolo I know they both were dead before 1906
-IMPORTANT I did find one baptism record that could be Catorina's mother Giuseppa Rotolo. I looked up on Antenni to make sure the index matched the actual record and it does match. If this is her than I have really good records moving up. But I really need confirmation that this is her.
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FINALLY CAUGHT A BREAK! After many hours searching for anything that can help me I found this record. I believe this is a birth record of a sister of Catorina Speciale. I'm somewhat surprised because it dates back to 1875, 10 years before Catorina's birth year. As I noted above there was a sister Antonia Marie that was noted on the passenger list. It is possible that this child was born and died later, and another daughter was named Antonia Maria (This one is just Anna Maria Speciale.
But it lists both parents and their ages. The age of the mother (25) matches up perfectly with the age of the Giuseppa Rotolo birth index I posted above. Unfortunately if does not list the grandparent's names.
Normally I ask for just the translation on the key facts that I can't read, but can I get help translating the handwritten part at the very top on right side?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L97B-ZX5J?i=1505&cc=2051639&cat=184276
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Dear @Harleynut97 ,
It's a very goog news😊
Knowing this new information will be probably more simple to find out very useful data.
Below you can find the translation you need
See you soon!
Giuseppe Scardina aged 60, a farmer - and Andrea Biancorosso aged 25, a janitor, both residing in this municipality, were present as witnesses to this act.
The declarant denounced the aforementioned birth for having took place to the birth of the aforementioned and in place of her husband because he was absent from the village.
Having read this deed to the attendees, it was signed by me only because they had declared that they were unable to sign.
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@Massimo C. Thank you for the translation. No doubt this was a big find for this branch. I am still seeking the marriage record for Antonio and Giuseppa. I've ruled out 1875,1874,1872,1871. I could not find any Bagheria marriage records for 1870 and in 1873 there is no index so I am going to have to go thru manually ☺️
Thank you once again for your help- Carl
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This is what one record can give you! I had no information on a low hanging ancestor named Catorina Speciale. I was lucky to get her marriage record which hasn't been digitally published yet. I am very confident on all these direct ancestors. I still have a lot of records to gather on these ancestors but this is a great start.
Many thanks to @Cousin Vinny @DangKwei @joseph99929 @Massimo C. for all the help you have offered on these and the many other Italian ancestors I have been researching- Carl
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Dear @Harleynut97 ,
you're more then welcome and your tree is amazing 😊
In my further researches I've found that Antonino probably born on 03 February 1841 (the document is here https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=414188 image 32 right side).
In FS there is also a tree related to Pietro Speciale (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9NFK-WWC) where Antonino is mentioned with other brothers and sisters.
I hope this can help!
Massimo
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@Massimo C. Yes, it is amazing what one elusive record can open up. Between now and the time I posted that tree I have found a number of records, including the birth of Antonio Speciale, but thank you for posting it. Thank you as well for the tree link. That is definitely the correct family. The surname Speciale was pretty common in Bagheria. I'm working on finding the church records for many of these older ancestors in the tree.
I should mention that I did finally find the marriage record of Antonio Speciale & Giuseppa Rotolo, It occurred earlier than I first thought, 4/15/1867.
I'll be posting requests for help on other posts as I continue my research. -Carl
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Dear @Harleynut97 ,
here also the birth certificate + baptism info for Giuseppa Rotolo, Caterina's mother
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=414214 image n.80 in the right side.
I hope this can help!
Massimo
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@Harleynut97 you made really a great job and I'm so happy for you!
All the best for next steps!
Massimo
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@Massimo C. I'm pretty sure I have all of the Baptism and Marriage records for these ancestors who would be covered in the antenati years available. It's the death records that I am lacking. I still have lots of older church records to go through. I do have Giuseppa Rotolo records for both her birth and marriage, but thank you anyway. - Carl
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