Death Extracts of Salvadore Sacchetta & Anna Puglise
Well I'm failing on locating 2 death extracts from this Processetti. The sibling marriage of of Angelo Sacchetta & Nicolina Cuda occurred in 1821. The marriage record indicates that the grooms father and mother, Salvadore Sacchetta and Anna Puglise were dead at the time of this marriage. I am seeking help ONLY on finding the death extracts of Salvadore and Anna.
I believe the processetti begins on Image 36 and ends on Image 45. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated -
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=35976437
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Image 36 is the groom's baptism, which actually names the grandfather of the baby, so I thought I'd translate it for you for that reason: Paterno, 1 Jan 1779 ... baptized child born today to Salvatore Sacchetta, son of the late Angelo, and Anna Puglise, married, whom they named Angelo
Image 39 is the grandfather's death: Paterno, 27 Apr (year is hard to read, either 1753 or 1773, you can take a look for yourself), Angelo Sacchetta, husband of Fulvia Guadagnolo, aged about 58, died...
Unfortunately, the deaths of the groom's two parents are not there, presumably those pages have been misplaced.
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@joseph99929 Well I guess this is a good news / bad news situation. The good news, if I'm understanding correctly, is I know the parents of Salvadore- Angelo Sacchetta and Fulvia Guadagnolo. Bad news no Death information on Salvatore or Anna Puglise.
I went back about 10 images in the 1821 to see if they got placed in the wrong marriage, I also went into the 1822 processetti to see if they might have got scanned in the wrong year at the very beginning. No luck with either. The only other thing I can do is check family search records at the history center to see if maybe Antenati somehow missed the scans.
This is a link to the civil record marriage, there are many notes hand written on front and back of the record.
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=35976440 IMAGE 7-8
But thank you very much for your help- Carl
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Indeed, Salvatore's father is Angelo 100%. The mother is most probably Fulvia Guadagnolo, though I don't personally like accepting the mother just because she is the wife of the father, as a man might remarry if his wife died young. I'd say there's a 90% chance of her being the mother.
In the civil marriage, that long stretch of text at the bottom of the first page and carrying to the next is actually the listing of the items that are included in the processetti. It mentions that the groom is a widow and actually gives his ex-wife's name Fortunata who died 1814 (her death record was also missing from the processetti), and it also says the parents' deaths are supposed to be provided. A lot of pages are missing from the digitization of this processetti file it seems.
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You're getting to find ancestors that are old enough to be on the catasto onciario. This is a census done by the Kingdom of Naples in the 1740s-50s (exact year varies from town to town, see: http://patrimonio.archiviodistatonapoli.it/asna-web/vedi-tutti-i-documenti/patrimonio-catasti-onciari-inventario.html). These records are held at the Archivio di Stato di Napoli, but luckily for you much of Cosenza province has been digitized and put online: http://www.onciario.beniculturali.it/?page_id=7#contenuto
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@joseph99929 I see what your saying about Fulvia, not a guarantee he is Salvadore's mother. Thanks for taking a second look at the marriage record.
Since the groom was 42 at the time of this marriage, and his 1st wife died in 1814, it is very doubtful that the first marriage occurred after 1809. I was thinking maybe I could look for that marriage, but I don't think I would find it.
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Actually, here is the specific family, it was coincidentally on the first image I opened: http://www.onciario.beniculturali.it/wp-content/gallery/onciario/Paterno/0012(1).JPG
Interestingly, we see Angelo is listed as dead. The official date of the census in Paterno was 1752, but typically these were updated and finalized and sent to the government in Naples some time later. We can see the word "morto" is in a different handwriting, so this was written sometime afterwards. But, for sure the year on Angelo's death certificate must be 1753 and not 1773, especially since the age at death was 58, and the age on the 1752 census is 58 as well.
Interestingly, Salvatore does not appear here, so we know for sure that he must have been born sometime after the census date 1752 but before his father's death 27 Apr 1753 (had he been born after his father's death, they would have named him Angelo after his late father). Since Angelo is already married to Fulvia by the census date, there is now 100% certainty now that Fulvia is indeed Salvatore's mother. Note that there is no guarantee that Fulvia is the mother of Salvatore's 3 older sisters.
To translate the census part:
Angelo Sacchetta, laborer (bracciale), disabled (invalido), age 58 ... dead
Fulvia Guadangolo, wife, age 28
Beatrice, daugher, age 7
Angela, daughter, age 5
Finita, daughter, age 3
Meaningfully translating the taxation part is much more difficult because this requires expert knowledge of the legal/economic system and local geography. It's impossible to translate the net worths to modern currency, as the economic system was completely different, but it is possible to compare the values to others living in the same community to get an idea of our ancestors' relative status. At a glance though, this family's property is truly very modest, and their debts are almost of the same value as their assets, so their net worth is really very small. They do own a chestnut grove and some vineyard land. If Angelo was too disabled to work, perhaps he was ill and dying by this point, this obviously would not have been easy for the family to live through.
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Actually, here is the specific family, it was coincidentally on the first image I opened: http://www.onciario.beniculturali.it/wp-content/gallery/onciario/Paterno/0012(1).JPG
Interestingly, we see Angelo is listed as dead. The official date of the census in Paterno was 1752, but typically these were updated and finalized and sent to the government in Naples some time later. We can see the word "morto" is in a different handwriting, so this was written sometime afterwards. But, for sure the year on Angelo's death certificate must be 1753 and not 1773, especially since the age at death was 58, and the age on the 1752 census is 58 as well.
Interestingly, Salvatore does not appear here, so we know for sure that he must have been born sometime after the census date 1752 but before his father's death 27 Apr 1753 (had he been born after his father's death, they would have named him Angelo after his late father). Since Angelo is already married to Fulvia by the census date, there is now 100% certainty now that Fulvia is indeed Salvatore's mother. Note that there is no guarantee that Fulvia is the mother of Salvatore's 3 older sisters.
To translate the census part:
Angelo Sacchetta, laborer (bracciale), disabled (invalido), age 58 ... dead
Fulvia Guadangolo, wife, age 28
Beatrice, daugher, age 7
Angela, daughter, age 5
Finita, daughter, age 3
Meaningfully translating the taxation part is much more difficult because this requires expert knowledge of the legal/economic system and local geography. It is however possible to compare the values to others living in the same community to get an idea of our ancestors' relative status. At a glance though, this family's property appears to be quite modest, and their debts are almost of the same value as their assets, so their net worth is really very small. They own some limited land, a chestnut grove and some vineyard land. If Angelo was too disabled to work, perhaps he was ill and dying by this point, this obviously would not have been easy for the family to live through.
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I saw your other post where you mentioned this surname, but haven't viewed any of these images. Are you sure it's not 'Pugliese'? I haven't seen the other two versions of this and the one I mentioned is common in parts of Cosenza. Some of my direct ancestors carried it.
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@joseph99929 It is strange that Salvatore is not noted on this census. I went back to his son Francesco's wedding record which took place in 1813 https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=35976391 Image 12 They mention Salvatore was age 64 in 1813 and his mother Ann Puglise was age 54. Assuming their ages were recorded correctly that would put his birth around 1749. So he should on that census.
@DangKwei So far all of the records I have found so far (mostly her son's baptism/marriage and death record) has her last named spelled Puglise. Going thru many record indexes I have seen different variations of this name. I am still looking for a death record for her, so maybe I should also search for the spelling you mentioned.
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@Harleynut97 Ages of the spouses on marriages are perfect because they actually verified that against the birth certificates, but the ages on deaths as well as the ages of parents on births and marriages, these are not immune to error.
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I just found the death record of Anna Puglise
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=35976434 IMAGE 19
Death record looks like she was 66 if I am reading it correctly and her husband was already dead.
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@Harleynut97 Excellent! Keep it up! If her husband was alive in 1813 and dead by 1820, you should be able to find his death too.
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Found Salvadore death record in 1818. Kind of odd his wife was not mentioned as she was still alive.
Curious about his occupation Mannesa?
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=35976421 IMAGE 29
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@Harleynut97 Yes, that's going to be him. The clerk failed to indicate his mother or his wife, but it's definitely him because of the unique profession he has which matches the 1813 marriage record. He was a mandese, craftsman who manufactures/repairs wagons.
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