Who to call?
Does anyone know who I would need to speak to, in order to find out EXACTLY what this means? If all records were open until 1939, shouldn’t those records still be OPEN?!?!? If not, how do laws work that way? If ALL RECORDS WERE OPEN, what gives anyone else the right to decide to close them other than the people on the records? And I know I sound like a broken record but who do I call in Oklahoma to get a definitive answer without having someone read me the adoption code verbatim. I have seen NOTHING anywhere that speaks about deceased afoptees. Every legal thing I’ve read only states the 1997 info, then if that’s not an option. You’re told to join the registry and or pay DHS $400+ to do a “search” and see if the parents want to be found ... THEY ARE ALL DEAD!! That’s not an option for either myself or @[JimKilby] so our only option otherwise is to physically go to Oklahoma, pay for travel and food and lodging, go to court, and hope a judge will give you the record? I read that they will only do it if there’s a medical reason. But folks born after 1997 can just go right down to the local courthouse and get their records. Where is the logic in this?!? Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for those who are allowed access, but who can explain to me the reason for denying folks like Mr. Jim and myself access to our deceased family members info? Ugggghhhhhhh I’m sorry but I’m just so frustrated right now!!!
Risposte
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I am working on the concept of who to call and checking to see if there is any other adoption legislation in the process.
Your previous article mentioned a Representative that was considering whether to open adoption records. Unfortunately, he is no longer in office.
@Rene Greer Williams do you have any suggestions?
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@X24MOM I couldn’t agree more with your post.
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Thank you both @Carolyn Webber anf @Jim Kilby ! Sometimes I feel like I’m beating a dead horse when I get all fired up and start ranting so it’s good to know I’m not crazy 😂 and I’m not the only one who just “doesn’t get it” I’ve been on the ok legislature website since yesterday on and off and Can’t figure out how to find the adoption info... there has to be a timeline or something somewhere right? Everytime I try to speak to ANYONE in Oklahoma on the phone and question the adoption laws,no one knows anything useful, everyone repeats the same thing and if I question what they’re saying, they just repeat themselves with no additional or useful info... it’s veryvery frustrating! I wonder if @Rene Greer Williams had had a chance to view this thread, like Carolyn said, maybe Rene has some ideas
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Ok I’m gonna say this... then I’ll stop... for now lol... the Oklahoma adoption code (which is the current Oklahoma adoption law) CLEARLY STATES the following words....
”The provisions of the Oklahoma Adoption Code shall not invalidate any adoption heretofore granted by any court.”
Ok, maybe I’m crazy, but wouldn’t that mean the “new” adoption code can’t affect prior adoptions in that state? Which should also mean that the adoption code took effect in 1997 or whenever, meaning all adoptions before that date shouldn’t be affected by whatever changes were made to the adoption laws? Because ALL adoptions prior to 1937 in Oklahoma were open, so the “new” law or changed to the law,shouldn’t effect the status of those records?!?!? Anyone picking up what I’m putting down here? Or do I sound like a crazy woman?!? 🤣
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As if I wasn’t already confused enough 🤣 I clicked this link and search the document for the word “Oklahoma” .... good grief 🤦🏻♀️
https://www.americanadoptioncongress.org/pdf/idea_of_adoption.pdf
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I wrote to a judge and asked exactly that, “weren’t adoptions before “x” date be exempted from the change in the law?” No response...naturally
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@ X24mom - I hear your frustration. I worked on a case back when the internet was just Prodigy. The person I was searching for was born in 1933 in Comanche County, OK and was taken from the family about 1935. We weren't even sure there was a legal adoption. A 10 term county judge was in power and he had a photo taken with the little girl. We were sure he adopted her but found he did not. I had this girl's bio brother write to every county judge across the panhandle as I had a suspicion of the location. Even though the records were technically sealed in 1935/1936, you wouldn't believe the responses from the various county judges!! Some looked in their records, didn't find it and said good luck. Some said the records were sealed and that was that! One even said the record was sealed and you will NEVER find her. Ugh! It all comes down to INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW. I was down to three counties that had not responded and I was at the Family History Library in SLC. I decided to call the counties that had not responded. One clerk asked "Have you checked the probate index?". They include a variety of filings. I checked the probate indexes which had been microfilmed by the FHL and lo and behold, she was listed under her birth name in Kay Co!! Now we had evidence she was adopted and in which county along with a case number. The judge did agree to open the file and long story short, I finally found her - living in CA less than a half hour from her brother! The adoptive parents had changed her name and having adopted a boy close to her age, they changed her birthdate and raised them as twins. Unbelievable! Sorry to ramble but this was a good genealogy lesson for me with the probate index. Keep your anger pointed towards the system and don't give up. You never know if your persistence will change the interpretation of someone in power.
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Yup. The first thing I check are probate records lol.
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@Jim Kilby I’ve called and spoken With folks out that way in Oklahoma, most are very nice but not very helpful, and the ones that can actually help, are so rude I don’t ever want to speak with them again lol... and yeah I doubt you’ll get an answer from the judge, I haven’t been able to find anyone yet that can answer my questions about the records and no one can clarify anything for me. It’s really frustrating
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That’s kinda what I keep thinking @Christina McKillip is that maybe, hopefully we will get ahold of someone with a heart lol ... I think it comes down to interpretation also, if you read the adoption code, it makes no sense when you take other things into account. All anyone wants to. Talk about are adoptions after 1997 and ok I get that, it’s written on everything you read about ok adoptions ... NO ONE can tell me if or why Records prior to that are sealed. If they weren’t originally sealed, why would they decide to seal them? No one in Oklahoma has been able to answer any of my questions. This one lady, the judges Baliff,got annoyed with me and told me if I wanted answers I’d need to come there and fill out a request form, i wanted to know if and why Records over 100 years old are sealed. And that’s what she told me. I live over 1500 miles from ok so that’s not an Option for me, I told her that and she said well you can try to get an Attny but 🤷🏻♀️i dont know🤷🏻♀️ what good it’ll do ya. ... ugggghhhhh
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I am wondering if others in this group have requested for adoption records to be unsealed and have been successful, or unsuccessful?
Perhaps we can learn together what works when this request is made. I have read that one of the most successful ways to have this request granted is if you can establish a medical need to know.
- What other conditions will encourage a judge to open the records?
- Did you use a specific form or write your own request?
- How did you determine who to submit the request to?
@Rene Greer Williams can you offer some guidance with these questions?
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No reason to do it in person. It can all be done by mail. Telephone calls will get you nowhere because they need a live signature and copy of your driver's license.
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DHS tells me that only the only person who can ask for a birth certificate is the person named in the birth certificate. That's the reason for the driver's license. However, after 125 years the records become public. In the case of 1910 born Lois, we only need to wait until 2035.
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ummmmm.... yeahhh.... we won’t be doing that .... we’re gonna find her one way or another and it won’t be 15 yrs from now dangit 😝 @Jim Kilby I think the biggest prob with ordering a bc is the fact that we haven’t a clue what her new name is ... and we would need that info in order to get a copy of the bc ... unless you’re speaking about the obc? Which is another thing i have an issue with... if you know the obc info, they shouldn’t have a prob supplying it and vice versa.... I was able to order my grandfathers bc for $5 several years ago. All I had to do was send the request with the payment and info and a copy of my drivers license. ... of course all I got was his adoptive parents info (I didn’t know he was adopted at that time) but still... it seems like people were much more willing to accommodate and were waaay nicer back in the early days of the Internet ... now folks won’t even answer the phone ...you get their vm and many prob don’t even bother to listen to it and most don’t bother to call back
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@Rene Greer Williams thank you so much! And also thank you so much for sharing your legal knowledge and expertise with us (I think me and @Carolyn Webber both we’re tagging you 😂 hoping you’d see this thread and have some ideas😊 if there is a way to do it by mail will you please please Point me in the right direction to get my request processed 😊 is there a place online where I can find that info? I ask because the lady at Logan County Court (the judges Baliff) Guthrie, Oklahoma told me that any request for adoption records or any info for adoptions that were final before Nov 1997 would need a court order.... and she told me there is absolutely no way to make that request (for the court order I guess?) without going to the court where the adoption was finalized and filling out a form; I asked if someone could do it on my behalf or if it could be done through mail or online or phone and her answer was a flat no. I explained to her that the records are over 100 years old and all parties have long ago passed away... she didn’t care; I explained that I live over 1500 miles away and it just isn’t an option for me to come there in person.... so she told me to give them a call to set up an appt if and or whenever it becomes an option for me to come there (yes she really said that 🤦🏻♀️). Then she ended with “well, 🤷🏻♀️i dont know🤷🏻♀️ what to tell you, the rules are the rules.... you could call around and try to find an Attny, but that’s not really going to help you either”. So, @Rene Greer Williams please please please forward the info to me or direct me to where I can find somewhere that says i can do it all by mail... that would make things SO much easier for me! Thank you so much for sharing that !!! And again, thank you so much for your response! I’m so grateful we have someone here with legal expertise!! I hope to hear from you soon!! 😊😊😊
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Let's keep working on this. I love to see your persistence.
Oklahoma began filing birth records in October of 1908. Births records were not required until 1917. Unfortunately, this requirement wasn't enforced until 1940. Proving identity wasn't as important back then as it is now.
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@Christina McKillip, can you share about how you successfully communicated with the judge to get the records open?
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Nice story...happy ending
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When I read this:
”The provisions of the Oklahoma Adoption Code shall not invalidate any adoption heretofore granted by any court.”
I interpret it that the new law could not invalidate the legality of any adoption, itself. But I do NOT get the impression the intent of meaning was that it was saying it would NOT change how adoption records are maintained, organized, or made avilable or not. it was simply referring to the adoption itself - not all the laws rules and regulations about how adoption records are handled.
I know nothing about adoption laws - Im just sharing my opinion on the meaning of the grammar of the sentence.
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