My great grandfather Patrick Maye was England-born Irish, born in or around Manchester 1869, married
Risposte
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James
I found a Patrick Joseph Maye marriage to Mary Ellen Battle on the FreeBMD website. It took place within the Oldham, Lancashire registration district in the last quarter of 1887. I could not find any children born to Maye / Battle parents, nor could find them in the 1891 census, however.
If you log in to FamilySearch, go to https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95G-LTZ. This has a Patrick May (born England, aged 33) and Mary E May (born Ireland, aged 33) in the 1900 US census - at New Bedford City, Bristol, Mass. Their children are shown as James H May, 6, and Sabina May, 0, both born Massachusetts. This appears to be the only "close match" from the 1900 census and an image can be viewed via the link shown above.
I have looked no further, but suggest you check out other US census returns (1910 onwards) and to see if you can find any birth / death records that might tie-in.
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@JamesDesjardins JamesDesjardins
James
Question: WHAT Records, for them, are you exactly/actually searching for?
Brett
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Brett,
Thanks for your interest. Someone has sent me info from the FreeBMD site. The names match, but the marriage date is a bit early, 1887, but possible. They could have had children that died. It is unlikely that they would not have had any surviving children from 1887 - 1895, when my grandfather was born in the U.S. If there was a way of getting info from the Catholic parish marriage registry, it would give info on their places of birth and their parents names. I am new to this document hunting, that is why I posted the question.
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Paul,
Thank you. If it is them, their children were born in the U.S. where they immigrated in 1893. I found a document that had Patrick Maye's immigration date as 1893. Then there are census records where his children appear. My grandfather was the eldest son. 1887 is a bit early, but not impossible. They would have been 18 and 17 years old.
The New Bedford census info is them, but with the surname spelt wrong. My problem is not with their time in the U.S., but info that leads backwards. A Catholic marriage registry would give their place of birth their parents' names.
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@JamesDesjardins JamesDesjardins
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James
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Is this his Birth?
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FreeBMD
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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GRO England & Wales
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
[ Free, to "Register"; and, search the "Indexes" ... ]
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Close-Up
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Brett
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@JamesDesjardins JamesDesjardins
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James
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Is this that Marriage?
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FreeBMD
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Brett
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Brett,
Thanks. His birth year is 1869.
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@JamesDesjardins JamesDesjardins
James
That one, was the ONLY "Patrick", whose "Birth", was Registered between 1860 and 1880, in England & Wales.
Brett
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James
I came back here this morning (GMT) to see if I could dig a little deeper for you. I was pleased to see Brett had taken an interest, as he is very experienced in this type of research and (a bit like me) doesn't like to leave any stone unturned - i.e he doesn't give up easily!
The 1873 Oldham birth registration would seem to fit very well - except it would mean Patrick married at around 14. However, the 1871 census has a 3 year old "Patrick J May", born Oldham. (See https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDDR-BRV). Unfortunately, I no longer have a Find My Past subscription to check the original, as his parents would be listed on the previous page to the one where he and his siblings (all born at Oldham) appear. (See further down for my updated comments.)
It is most unusual to find late birth registrations in England, but it appears to be possible in this case. There is also a Bridget May(e) in the 1871 census, yet no Bridget Maye birth registration is found at Oldham until 1877 - again, mother's maiden name shown as COONEY. However, the only match for a Catherine / Katherine 1857 birth shows a mother's maiden name of BRETT. The 1862 birth of Ann also has BRETT as the mother's surname, as does the 1859 birth of Atty.
As I write, I have found the 1881 census record for this family (at
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-TPYW) . “Patrick” has been recorded as “Joseph” here (age of 13 and middle name matches). The parents (both born in Ireland) are James & SELINA. (The children of Patrick in the 1900 census being shown as James and SABINA.) This detail lead me to finding James May, 50, and SABINA, 45, (both born Ireland) at Oldham in the 1871 census (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDDR-BRZ), with an additional daughter, Mary. The whole family were recorded over two pages in the 1871 census. Again, (as with Bridget) I cannot find a Mary May birth, c1851.
Pre-1871, I could only find one James May in the census – in 1861 at Toxteth Park, Liverpool, with wife Catherine (Clinton)* and family (See https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7RG-DYK). *Marriage 1850 West Derby, Lancashire. Also the same family at Liverpool in 1851 (See https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5Q-J8W).
That’s about as far as I can go, I’m afraid. No marriage found for James May(e) & Sabina and confusion over the maiden surnames of Brett and Cooney found in the GRO index. Unless Brett has any further suggestions, I think it will be difficult to find anything more right now.
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Brett,
That could be the marriage. If they are my great-grandparents, it would probably mean that they lost a few children before my grandfather was born in 1895.
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Thanks, Paul.
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Not sure how much of this you know, but on Ancestry, Patrick Joseph Maye
in the U.S., Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)
claims a birth date of 29 Mar 1868.
Then Patrick Joseph Maye in the Massachusetts, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950
has
Birth Date: 29 Mar 1868
Birth Place: Oldham Lancashire, England
Arrival Date: 27 Sep 1884
Arrival Place: Boston
Date of Action: 28 Oct 1893
(the form notes that he was a minor on his arrival).
Now, I CANNOT find his birth registration in England with those details. But I can find him in the 1871, 1881, 1891 census.
In the 1871, he is in Oldham as Patrick J May at
Household schedule number: 189
Piece: 4094
Folio: 118
Page number: 34
His parents are James & Selina(?) May, both b Ireland.
In the 1881 he is Joseph May still in Oldham
Piece: 4064
Folio: 91
Page Number: 34
Same parents.
In the 1891, he is Joseph May, married to Mary E May - no children, just a boarder. Piece: 3298; Folio: 63; Page: 28
Yeah - the 1891 when he claims to have emigrated in 1884? Something odd there... But there just aren't any other people with those name b Oldham at that time. Further, his 1900 census claims an immigration date of 1892 not 1884!!
Going back to the image of the 1871, he has various siblings. Very usefully, he has a sister Attie May who DOES have a FreeBMD birth reg in Oldham
Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
MAY Atty Oldham 8d 530
The GRO site gives the same but adds the Mother's Maiden Name:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
MAY, ATTY BRETT
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 530
Using May and the MMN, I can give you only these 2 siblings up to 1877:
MAY, ATTY BRETT
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 530
MAY, ANN BRETT
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 513
That's a lot less than there children are in the censuses. Strikes me they avoided registering the births.... Or the names were different, of course.
Suggest you try to trace James & Selina more in the UK censuses.
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Adrian,
Thank you very much.
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