www.portafontium.de
Commenti
-
Hi Susan, I would like to have you look at 2 links regarding Vaclov Svoboda (Father of Anny Svoboda). If you recall there was a document that was found that listed Marie Benedict as a wife. But I am pretty sure she was a wife of the younger Vaclov who was Anny's brother. I feel strongly that the wife of Vaclav (annys father) is named Josefa.
If you wouldn't mind, please look closely at these 2 links to try and determine the mothers(Josefa) last name and any other important info for Josefa.
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065505/maly-bor-10_0350-n?x=-468&y=17&w=1908&h=750
Feb 28 birth
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065505/maly-bor-10_0420-n?x=-89&y=212&w=828&h=325
Nov 9 birth
I am hoping that seeing a couple other records might help getting her correct last name, and hopefully of her father
0 -
First I think you are correct that the Vaclav Svoboda married to Marie Benedict is the brother of Anni.
Next, those two records you found seem to add another Vaclav ... married to Josefa but the daughter of Jakuba ... gee I wish I could read that surname. It seems to be scribbled the same in both entries. Jakuba becomes clearer in the 2nd record. Too bad house #'s are not indicated. I see something in the first record 1803 for Mary Svoboda. In the column two columns over it appears to say manzelka Vaclav Crisi ???? Svoboda and Anni .... ah yes ... another Vaclav and Anni. What makes this interesting and confusing is in the Czech culture children were many times named for their godparent. Will try looking at that surname again ...maybe another # 7 entry.
0 -
This is a link to birth record on Anny Svoboda. I should have sent it with the other 2 links. It is another document that shows the name of Josefa (Anny's mother) I do believe you are correct about the name Jacuba (Josefa's father) I think the last name might be Hut..z or Hat..
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065505/maly-bor-10_0280-n?x=-645&y=-51&w=2290&h=900
First entry
I also found the death record of Marie Koutenske (Wife of Josefa Rezare) Unfortunately they had her under her
husbands last name and no mention of parent names. Right side, Died Jan 27 1846, house 51
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065509/maly-bor-14_0054-z?x=-164&y=1&w=1747&h=687
0 -
I think there may be more than one Vaclav Svoboda married to a Josefa .... Malb bor 10 page 52 Oct 1808 pag 52 Josefa Svoboda birth record I think says Josefa daughter of Jakuba Soub ....
Page 60 7 December 1810 Frantisek Svoboda says mother is Josefa daughter of Jakuba ... closest reading I can get is Soubugu or Soubuzu or Soubuyar J cannot read where she is from .... it looks sort of like Maly H ..... those letters are so hard to decipher. And luck would have it ... no house number. I searched in several indexes for the letter S .... could not find the name just yet ... but there were several Jakub's. Will check out that death record for Marie Koutenske Back later.
0 -
I just took another look at the entry Maly bor 10 page 60 Frantisek Svoboda 7 Dec 1810.... father Vaclav; mother is Josefa daughter of Jakuba Soubugu (best reading so far). then I am reading more of the mother's information: father Jakub Soubugu and mother Anna Holabovy I cannot read where they are from ....I don't think it is Maly bor.
It appears as if the witnesses are Vaclav Bruza and Frantisek Bruzova. Perhaps looking for this couple might give more clues
0 -
This is a closeup from Anny Svoboda.. are you saying the name in the box begins with an S? I believe this is Josefa and Jakuba's last name. I wonder if the location is Hliněný Újezd (one of villages that are in these Maly records
0 -
I see this entry and Josefa daughterof Jakuba ... surname looks like Hatey. It is other entries which look like they begin with an S .... so I would conclude there might be more than one person ... a Vaclav married to a Josefa. page 52 15 Oct 1808 looks like Jakuba Soub.... and p. 60 7 Dec 1810 Frantisek father Jakub Soubau?? and mother Anna Holabovy I remember on that closeup I first didn't realize the name Jakub ended up basically hyphenated ... and read the 2nd half as Peter. I realize that was an error on my part. Back to the village it could be Hliney Ujezd ... although the handwriting looks different...maybe the village had different spellings for the name. I'll have to take a look at some maps ... www.mapy.cz and see what villages surround Maly Bor. You probably already know this but if you go to mapy.cz and type in Maly bor 55 or whatever house # you are looking for the map will indicate where in the village it is placed. I have to say your skill at copying and magnifying entries is so helpful .... your talent is well appreciated. I'm going to dig out my papers on handwriting for that era. Might help deciphering more of these letters. Back later.
0 -
I'm now thinking you are correct and that Josefas Maiden name does begin with an S rather than a H. I was looking at the birth indexes and looking at 1805 (the year the younger Vaclov was born.) I found him and sure enough if you look at a number of names in that area you will see those S's looking like H's
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065515/maly-bor-20_0073-rst?x=-9&y=43&w=406&h=159
Look at the first entry on the very upper left.
On a different subject, I did find the death record for Joseph Rezare he died in 1874, age 77 (4th entry from bottom)
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065518/maly-bor-23_0117-z?x=-532&y=15&w=2065&h=812
0 -
That handwriting is quite confusing. In the past I printed out variations of different forms of the handwriting used at the time. Certainly makes it confusing. In the Kurrent font the h does look like an s .... it all depends on how it fits with the other letters. That is why I am leaning toward there being more than one Vaclav married to a Josefa living at that address. If only the handwriting were a bit clearer ... sometimes you do become lucky with the script being so clear .... and other times it is just scribble with a terrible pen nub or feather. How did they ever manage? I'll take a look at that entry you just mentioned. One of the websites I found shows the formation for the alphabet in Fraktur, Kurrent and Sutterlin. I think the website is: www.ggrs.com There is also a webstite for Sutterlin where you can type in a name and it will show what the word is printed in Sutterlin. www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm
0 -
Just took a look at that index. All the letters should be S .... but in several cases they look like H. Wonder if the second letter determined the shape of the written S. Very confusing to say the least. Deciphering is certainly getting more difficult. Perhaps once you see a name that is difficult to read try to find it in an index. I try that but even that is difficult.
0 -
I think I just found the marriage record of Vaclav Svoboda and Josefa. Good news is I found it, bad news the deacon must have been getting to the end of the wine bottle🙂 They give his age but not hers. That led me to try and find Vaclov's birth record but his name if really wierd. First link is
the marriage record, second link the birth record
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065506/maly-bor-11_0060-o?x=-631&y=-20&w=2263&h=889
Nov 2, 1800
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065501/maly-bor-06_0560-n?x=-460&y=-5&w=1935&h=760
Birth date April 10 1776
I am really confused on the name of the infant. Curious to your thoughts.
Thank you for those links.
0 -
I think I went to the correct link for the birth record -- House # 7....but it is not for Vaclav. It is 10 April ...the birth of male twins ... gemini
Adalbert and Jakoby; parents: Rudolph Svoboda and Anna uxor (married) maybe daughter of Hubert Horajdor
Godparents: Wenceslaus Holic from ex Anjezd (got that spelling from the heading) and Jacoby Novacek and Magdalena daughter of Ioannes Benedict. I will look again to see if there is a different birth record that I may have missed. Looks like these twins only had one godmother; maybe Wenceslaus Holik was not married. Re: the marriage record ... maybe assume that Vaclav and Josefa were close in age.
0 -
Thank you for the translation on the birth document, I'll keep looking. But I have to believe Rudolph and Anna Horajdor is Vaclov's parents. Did you get a chance to look at the marriage record? The timing looks right a year before Anny Svoboda's birth. Would you say that is their marriage record? Also curious if Anny's mother maiden name becomes any clearer?
0 -
Sorry I thought I commented on the marriage record. I was not clear ...it does look like their marriage record ... the fact that her age and house # was left out might mean she came from a different village .... within Maly bor I hope. Vaclav's birth would have been about 1775 if he was 25 in 1800 the time of the marriage. I would look for her birth record close to that year too.
That maiden name that starts with or looks like it starts with Sou.... It has the capital S then another line that looks like an f or s ... not completed. It must indicate a particular letter rather than a squiggle. On Maly Bor 85 - death records 13 June1793 House # 7 ... it says Matey syn of Mty and then similar name with similar "squiggle" S _ewer Just pointing out name with similar writing. Hop I started looking in the death records in general because with the birth of twins many times both twins did not survive ... some not surviving birth ... or dying months later. Hoping to find something but it appears as if both twins survived.
0 -
I'll go back and take another look at the record ... but I did have a thought. Perhaps the surname begins with Sh ... that squiggle I mentioned might be the beginning of the lower case h. Just a thought if you are searching through any index records. Back later.
0 -
Just found something of interest. Assuming that Josefa was from house # 10 .... it looks like the deacon wrote the house # in the wrong column. Look at Maly bo 18 marriage records ... house # 10 Jan ... the name could be Shwartz son of Matey Shwan...or something like that. Jan was 38 ... born about 1778 ... might be worth looking for his birth record to see if the name is any clearer. Might just be grasping at straws
0 -
Hey Susan, I just want to let you know how appreciative I am of all the time and help you have given to me. Besides the translation help, it has been really enjoyable collaborating with someone. I have pretty much been on my own in all my genealogy research and it is really a pleasure to bounce ideas and strategies to finding these elusive ancestors.
I would however like to take a pause on this entire line of this family. Both you and I have done extensive research on this line and I feel like there are so many other branches that need my attention.
If you would like to continue helping me on this, I would sure welcome any help you can give. I am going to post a marriage record on a different post and maybe you can take a look at it. The new post will be named Birth Record of Marie Metelec
0 -
It's been a fun adventure to collaborate ... in fact, I find when I work with someone else I always learn a bit more myself. Willing to take a look at the Metelec record ...back later after I see the post.
0 -
Have you found where I made the post on Birth Record of Marie Metelec? I posted it yesterday. If when you come to the website (FS groups Czec) at the top there is a box that will say "recent activity" if you change that to "most recent" this new post will show up at the top.
0 -
I have not see it ... will check for it later. Thanks for letting me know ... I thought I would get an automatic notification but I guess that only happens on Sunday's when they open for the week.
0 -
Because it is a new post, you would have to first go to the website,,, find the post and reply. Once you do that, than you will get the notifications in your email or whereever you receive them.
0 -
Hey Susan, I was wondering if you could take a look at this and give me your thoughts.
Anne Rezare (Spouse of Jan Jirsa) was born in Brežany House 51. Her Parents were Josefa Rezare and Marie Koutenske.
I believe I found 2 potential birth records of Josefa Rezare. Based on Josef's 1874 death record it notes his age as 83 which would have him being born abt 1791
This is one record I found in 1791
http://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30065502/maly-bor-07_1250-n?x=414&y=528&w=697&h=274
But I found another record in 1793 (same address) and I am trying to figure out which one is correct
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065505/maly-bor-10_0670-n?x=-98&y=319&w=618&h=557
Unfortunately I have not been able to find his marriage record.
This is his death record, but I don't think it mentions his parents.
http://www.portafontium.de/iipimage/30065518/maly-bor-23_0117-z?x=-389&y=45&w=1803&h=708
I am hoping to get your help with the names of his parents of whichever record is correct.- Carl
0 -
That writing sure is difficult. I think the first record is correct as it is definitely Josef ....with a witness named Josef ... a godfather.
I believe the mother is Anna Hudnizko .... cannot really read the father's name.\
The second record I believe is for a sibling. Names looks like Prokop ... which believe it or not is a real name.
Mother is Anna Hudnizkova (they use the correct format for the woman's name)
Witnesses names are Vojtech ??? and Rozina Sefalova ... a guess.
Look again at the death record. He died at the age of 83 years and two months. That might help determine his exact birth date.
Maybe you can find more sibling records to get a better take on the father. Hope this helps a bit.
0 -
Thank you Susan, Since you thought the 1793 record was a sibbling, and those mothers names (Anna Hudnizko) seem to be the same person,
could you take a quick 2nd look at the 1793 record and take a close look at the father. It seems like it is Maw??zi, what would your interpretation be?
0 -
I took another look. And then looked at a list Czech names for men .... at Czech Genealogy for Beginners
It could be Vavrinec ... but written with a W as these two letters seem interchangeable. Wavrinec or Vavrinec translates as Laurence.
That's my best guess.
0 -
OK Susan, thanks for taking a second look, I'll continue to seek the marriage record Josefa Rezare and Marie Koutenske. I hope your having a good Sunday!
0 -
I must say it is frustrating reading some of these records. Perhaps finding more records will give you clearer pictures of this handwriting.
Having a good day here.
0 -
JOSEPH PETRLIK FINALLY FOUND! The town he was born in is called Mnichov (not Michov) it is in the Strakonice District and the church is named Katovice. Here is his birth record
https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/4762/395/2223/1643/50/0
Here is what I am seeing.. please check
Born on March 18, 1880 , House 18
Father Matej Petrlik, son of (Diseased)Jana Petrlik(a) Farmer of Michova House 18 and Anny Kro?acek house #2, Town?
Mother- Maria, Daughter of Josefa Sokol(a), farmer of Krt (I believe abbreviation for Krty-Hradec) husband of Kateriny
?onkup, Town name?? house #22
Can you review this and help fill in some of the blanks I'm missing or may have gotten wrong? ... It's turned into a good day Susan!
0 -
I admire your persistence ... will check the record and get back to you.
0 -
The biggest problem right now is determining what towns the wife of Jana Petrilik (Anny Kropacek) is from, and where the wife of Josefa Sokol (Kateriny Ponkup) is from. I believe the marriage records for both couples are "hiding" in those towns. But I am going crazy trying to find where the towns are at. Towns appear to be Neoosed and ?an?onic
0
