Frazled brain Are these two people the same people ?

ColinM0288

I'm trying to sort out some things with my family. I keep running into some roadblocks. I have several right now.

Let me tell you about the first one.

Are these two people the same person?

Florence Louise Brushett (1874–Deceased) • Person • Family Tree

Florence Brushett (1874–Deceased) • Person • Family Tree

Now I would say they are HOWEVER.

The first person F.L.B. Later went on to marry Stanly G Smith. then we asume she died at some point and Stanley G. Smith Marryed Eva Smith Nee Smith (yes the same name)

The second person F.B. it appears was married to Henry Hodge. If this is the same person this means that the following happened.

Forence, marred Henry Hodge, He died Then she married Stanly Smith, then She died and Stanley married Miss Eva Smith.

Now thats not uncommon I'm sure. But I cant really find any co-oberating evidence other that various registers (I'm useing the term to indicate those government lilsts that basically list names and date ranges eg (Oct Nov Dec). I cant find anything other than that. There are some matches here and there but not conclusive to decide if they are the right ones.

Ps here are some dates things that WE KNOW.

Florence L. B. married Stanley Smith in 1908. We have Marriage Certificate

Evelyn Constance was born in 1915. the mother is Florance L.B. We have her baptism certificate.

1939 Register Stanley and their daughter Evelyn Constance Smith are listed and Stanley is listed as a W. Windower. (Presumably Widowed to Florence Brushett his wife.)

To try to figure out if these are the same people these are the quesions Ive been trying to sort out from all angles, fruitlessly.

1. What I wish to see is proof that Henry Hodge was the husband to Florence L. Brushett?
2. When did he die? Presumably before 1908 as thats when Florence and Stanley got married.
3. When did Florence L. Hodge Nee Brushett Died? It must have beet between 1915 (Birth of Daughter) and 1939 Register when Stanley is listed as W.

These things would be helpfull.

Thank you for your guidence.

Regards

Adrian Bruce1

"… What I wish to see is proof that Henry Hodge was the husband to Florence L. Brushett? …"

There is no proof because they never married. I have used FreeBMD to list Florence Brushett marriages. There is no marriage to a Henry Hodge (but see below).

I tried the reverse - Henry Hodge married to Florence Brushett. Nothing.

However… Ancestry has the 1908 marriage to Stanley Smith. On the previous page is the marriage of Henry Hellyer Hodge to Kathleen Greatorex Shelmerdine.

Now, do a FamilySearch query from Florence GFCJ-5PQ. There is one registration of a marriage for Florence Louise Brushett - it's in 1908 and it says "Possible Spouse - Henry Hellyer Hodge".

This FS response is complete nonsense. Prior to 1912, there are 4 persons on a marriage page, no indication of who married who, and therefore 2 men who might have married Florence - who happen to be Henry H Hodge and Stanley G Smith.

What the FamilySearch response should say is what the FindMyPast response says, "Florence Louise Brushett married one of these people - Stanley George Smith, Henry Hellyer Hodge"

But somewhere along the line FamilySearch (or possibly FindMyPast, who supplied that data to FS) has messed up the response so that it only gives one answer - we know from Ancestry that it's the wrong one (I believe that it's impossible to deduce which is the right one so basically choosing one of the two results gives a 50% chance of being wrong.)

We have told FS on several occasions that they (or possibly FMP) have gone very, very wrong in reducing a choice of 2 spouses to just 1. But nothing has happened. Well, nothing apart from wasting your time and goodness knows how many others.

Let me be clear on this - do not use the FamilySearch England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005 for marriages before 1912 - use the FreeBMD one instead. You may be safer to just try FreeBMD (or FindMyPast id you have access to it) for all dates.

If anyone objects to me telling people not to use a FamilySearch collection, go and ask FS why they have a collection that gives incorrect answers.

ColinM0288

Thank you for your response.

Let me state what I think your saying. That I can delete GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett. That there is no relationship beteen Henry Hodge and Florence Brushett. I think in the end that is what you are saying.

My comments …

Yes I too usinged GRO and FreeBMD. Left right nd upside down. Trying to make head and tails with what I found. When the data is not there you begin to read into info things that are perhaps not there.

I too found Henry Hellyer Hodge and in fact went through his military records looking for a wife or home address. Eventually I came to his wife Kathrine and thus tossed him out as a canadate of husband, since the dates he was alive was when I thought Henry Hodge had died anyway I think. I looked again at the marriage certificate of for Stanley Smith and Florence Louise Brushett G7S2-ZVK and while I was looking at the document noticed to my surprise that Henry Hellyer Hodge and Kathrine were the previous record on the document. see below.

I though well isnt that wierd. I provide this picture to anyone who may question what we are speaking about.

I do know that some documents do put the wrong husband or wife or person together, so i try to be aware of this. I have seen this sometimes and if I can correct I do. Although not as sharp as you I just wondered about it in this instance and kept believe the info was right but it only added to the confusion.

So are you saying, and excuse me if I've miss interpreted you. That somewhere Familyserach or another entity has put Florence Brushett with Henry Hodge, because of this. I do wonder though why they didnt put his full name eg Henry Hellyer Hodge married to Florence Louise Brushett. In many way this was confusing too to me. The middle names where removed so I wondered why that was In FS.

Additionally it looks like both Henry Hodge GFCJ-PQ2 and Florence Brushett GFCJ-5PQ where added by a person "(username removed)" in FS, IF I UNDERSTAND THE WAY THIS DATA WAS ADDED. (thats saying a a lot) So it seems someone found some info that was perhaps incorrectly catalogued and then just copied it down. If that's what happened.

Thank you for your considerable effort.

Please advise.

Adrian Bruce1

"there is no relationship beteen Henry Hodge and Florence Brushett"
Correct.

"That I can delete GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett."
Nearly but not literally. You can't actually delete a profile once it's been used, as this one has. But we can get rid of her.

Let me try and map out the steps. The helicopter view is that we want to get rid of GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett by merging her with G7S2-ZVK Florence Louise Brushett. I say merge the 2 because we don't want to leave a spare Florence floating around.

We also want to break the link between Florence and GFCJ-PQ2 Henry Hodge (yes, good question - why were the middle names removed? Fortunately we don't need to know that!)

If we just break that link and do nothing else, we'll have a spare Henry floating around. Fortunately, we already have the "real" version of Henry in FamilyTree - he is GL41-4MQ Henry Hellyer Hodge. So what we need to do is break the link between Florence and Henry, then merge GFCJ-PQ2 Henry Hodge with GL41-4MQ Henry Hellyer Hodge.

OK, to avoid the potential for data loss that can happen if you're not used to merging (been there, done that when I lost the PID I was working with), I have now fixed Henry by doing what I suggested, i.e. by breaking his link to Florence and merging him with the proper GL41-4MQ Henry Hellyer Hodge. So he's done and fixed.

That leaves you with G7S2-ZVK Florence Louise Brushett and the now unmarried GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett.

The two of them have slightly different birthplaces - you're going to have to sort out for yourself whether West Ham or Canning Town is best. When you've thought that through, you will need to merge G7S2-ZVK Florence Louise Brushett and GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett.

Start from G7S2-ZVK Florence Louise Brushett and click the link for Possible Duplicate with GFCJ-5PQ Florence Brushett. Then you can merge the two and there'll only be one Florence.

Ashlee C.

@ColinM0288 Mod note: Your comment was edited to maintain the privacy of a living person. Please see the Community Code of Conduct for more details.

ColinM0288

Thank you this has been a GREAT deal of help!!

I have printed off a few of the comments to remind me to use other sources a little more for marrage records in the date ranges and places you have specified. like Findmypast and of course FreeBMD. I have posted it on my wall.

Now on to the next problem.

Graham Buckell

The current position with the England & Wales Civil Marriage Registration Index is actually worse than @Adrian Bruce1 portrays. It randomly displays one of the three other records as the possible spouse - so that includes the second female when considering a female. I even came across a case recently where it reported the possible spouse as someone who was not listed as one of the three possibles.

The issue has been reported but it is not clear how long it will take to resolve.