Translation help with Staudt entry
I would appreciate help with this 1680 church record from the Evangelical Church in Konken, Kusel, Rhineland. It was found in the section of the churchbook labeled (at a later date) as "Church Protocol" and I am unsure of its significance. The text mentions Thilman Staudt and Maria Elisabetha, and Wilhelm Becker and his daughter Engel, who is married to Thilman. I do not possess the skills or vocabulary to tackle this record.
The entry is at the top left and is numbered as "1."
Thank you so much!
The record can be seen on this link to a memory for Tilman Staudt and/or hopefully the image will be added by the "work around" process. The memory was still being screened when I posted this. It should pop up when it is "approved" by family search. Please check back if it is not yet visible on Tilmann's profile page.
Tilmann Staudt (1647–1726) • Person • Family Tree (familysearch.org)
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
Migliori Risposte
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This record is very difficult to read and to understand, partly because of the handwriting and partly because of the non-standard text. I can only decipher parts of it. It seems to be the record of a church interrogation regarding sexual offenses.
Here is what I seem to be reading:
Die Dominica den __ juny 1680
In beysain hl Schätt__ysen Concken amptis
Johann Abraham? Hertell und Hanß Theobald
Müller zu Selchenbach?, Hanß Wilhelm B_tten
zu Ilbh__ und Nicel Fauß? zu Concken__ als
h___ , hatt mann die obige Sache
wegen? Thilmann Staud und Maria Elisabetha
hans ___ ___ zu hir____ für-
genommen, und erstlich die Ehfrauw abgehört.
Deren ___ ist daß Thilmann Staud sie?
vor langen jahren hiero? __ __ in die Ehe ge-
tretten zur uhnzucht? l___ auch einmahl
als sie bey st___ erdbe___ gebrochenen?
xxx xxxx hernach
zum ofteren alß er schon in der Ehe mit
seiner Hausfrauen Engel gelebt, sie zum Eh-
bruch? hatt z___, _____ einmahl
xxx ist dem Sontag nach gehaltener
Predig im nachhauß von Concken er __
sie begehert? auch __ und das er sie auf den
Boden nidergeworfen, sie aber
sich gewehret und ge___ hat zu
r___, worüber er sie hat wieder gehen
lassen.Tentative translation:
Sunday, ___ June 1680
In the presence of Johann Abraham? Hertell, ___ of the Konken office and Hans Theobald Müller from Selchenbach?, Hans Wilhelm B__tten from Ilbh__? and Nickel Fauß from Konken as ____?, the above-mentioned matter regarding Thilmann Staud and Maria Elisabetha ___ ___ ___ was discussed, and the wife was heard first. Her statement? is that Thilmann Staud long years ago ___ ___ married __ __ fornication ___ also once when she __ ___ __ Later, when he already was married to his wife Engel, ___ adultery ___. One Sunday after the sermon, on the way home from Konken, he __ desired her __ and threw her to the ground, but she resisted and ___ ___, so he let her go again.Maybe other volunteers can fill in some of the missing parts.
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Hello Cynthia,
The other parts are just as hard to read (if not harder). I can only partially decipher them. You seem to be right that the parts reflect the statements of the persons involved.
Part 2 is the statement of Thilmann, but I can't read it enough to report on its contents.
Part 3 is the testimony of Maria Elisabetha. I can fully read only the last sentence which says: "…the shirt torn at the neck, about which she again rejected him with harsh words."
Part 4 is a sort of summary. "The aforementioned Thilmann was questioned and asked if he was sure about this matter. … To which he replied that he did not know for sure, but because some p___? had already happened long ago, he cannot say for certain …. But because the woman…. it was decided that …. reparationem scandali …. to report to the upper consistory."
So apparently there was some penalty or fine and a report to the higher ecclesiastical authority.
1 -
The entry on the preceding page is somewhat easier to read:
[d]ie jovis den 12ten Maji 1680
bey gehaltenem extraordinarien censur in
beysein hl Johann Abraham Hartell Schatt___?
Conker amptß und Nicel Hausen censor?
zu Concken, zeiget Hans Haun von Hirs-
weyler? ahn, daß Thilmann Staud alda ahn
seiner Haußfrauwen? Ehefrauw Maria Elisabetha
zu underSchieden? mahl ____ unzucht und
ehbruch begehet, worüber gedachter Thil-
mann Staud al___ abgehört, ?
uhnziemelich begehen? __ gestanden mit
___ W__dung, sie habe ihm zu ____ ___
zin ehli___ bege__, er sollen ihr
__ dem Thaler Markt eine ____ kaufen.
Weylen aber xxx obgenannte effrauw nicht
zu gegen, als hat mann beschlossen, sie des
wegen künftig hier abzuhören.Tentative translation:
Thursday, 12 May 1680
At the extraordinary censorship [meeting] held in the presence of Mr. Johann Abraham Hartell, Schatt___? of the Konken office and Nicel Hausen censor at Konken, Hans Haun from Hirsweyler? (perhaps or ) testifies that Thilmann Staud has has committed fornication and adultery with his wife Maria Elisabetha at various times, about which the named Thilmann was questioned and __ <this part is unclear to me>__ But since the named wife is not present, it was decided to hear her here in the future.
1 -
Ulrich Neitzel,
There is more! Ei, ei, ei! Hopefully, this entry might be a bit easier to read and puts this issue to rest. I can guess at a few letters and words at the beginning:
? 4 Aug 1880:
Hatd maim bey der censur Thilmann Staud vun Herchweiler
Tilmann Staudt (1647–1726) • Person • Family Tree (familysearch.org)
The entry is the second on Bild 16.
Ulrich - You are the best!
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
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Hello Cynthia -
Unfortunately, I can't read this entry in full either, especially the middle part is difficult. Here comes my uncomplete transcription:
Mercury 4 Aug 1680
hat mann bey der censur Thilmann Staud
von hirsweyler wegen seines von beneh_
u. ___ ___ für genommen, und ihn?
ermannet?, daß er sein reparationem scandali
uf guts be_inden vor? hl E___ clath__
coram Ecclesia repraesent__ mit zu Ziehung
etlicher gemein_ Räthen? aus jedem dorf?, und,
alzo? für ____ censur hatte leisten?, xxx
wa_lich er auch guth_, und daruf hier
ist er wiederumb zum glied der christlichen
Kirch ahngenommen u. der ant__ mit ___
gebeth beschlossen worden.Tentative translation:
Wednesday, 4 August 1680
Thilmann Staud from Hirsweyler was questioned at the censorship meeting regarding his ___?, and he was admonished? to ___ his reparationem scandali ___ before the church (congregation) with the involvement of several councilman from each village, and ___ ___ ? hereupon he is again accepted as a member of the Christian church and the ___ was concluded with a prayer.
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Risposte
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Ulrich Neitzel,
Thank you so much! I tried to transcribe the German words several times, but it was just gibberish to me. There is more "testimony" in the book. There are parts 2, 3, and 4 on the same and the facing pages. Now I can assume Thilman's side of the story is part 2, Maria Elisabetha's is 3 and perhaps the "verdict" is in part 4?
I don't expect you to translate all of both pages, but could you peek at the pdf of the full record on Thilman's Memories tab and see if you can get the main idea of the contents? I am very curious about the outcome. I didn't expect this to be such personal information about someone from 1680. However, everyone is human!
Tilmann Staudt (1647–1726) • Person • Family Tree (familysearch.org)
You are so helpful! I appreciate the work you do here!
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
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Ulrich Neitzel,
Here is the entry from the preceding page which may shed some light on the interrogation?
Thank you for any time and effort you are willing to give! I know this is very challenging.
Here is the link to the pdf on Thilmann Staudt's Memories…
Tilmann Staudt (1647–1726) • Person • Family Tree (familysearch.org)
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
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Ulrich Neitzel,
Thank you for your heroic efforts with this challenge. I am relieved to know that it was extremely difficult to read because I was doubting my skills when I could not make sense of any part of the text. I stumbled upon it quite by accident as I was searching for baptism records, so I think it was revealed to me on purpose by some unknown force? It is a sad situation, but it shows that this man was fallible just as we are to this very day. The accusations may or may not be true. I know marriage was usually arranged within social and economic restraints in this time and place. I cannot judge Thilmann or the woman because I don't know what really occurred.
Thilmann is not my blood ancestor, but his descendant married my fifth great-grandmother after her first husband (my fifth great-grandfather) died. I am researching the Staudt family with a distant half-cousin who is a descendant from a Staudt child in the second marriage. I hope that is not too confusing!
I am so appreciative of your generous volunteer spirit and the time you devote to helping others here. I volunteer for our local genealogy society to try to "pay it forward" for all the help others like you have been to me. Have a great day and God bless!
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
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Thank you again, Ulrich Neitzel. Thilmann was supposedly a long-time member of the town council in Herschweiler and was a church censor in/by 1710. Perhaps, this was an inquisition into his character before he was entrusted with one of these responsibilities? These transgressions seemed to be from his past, if I can interpret the meaning from the bits and pieces.
I now know more about Thilmann than I could ever imagine!
Cynthia McClanahan Cruz
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