Uster ZH - census - 1634-1640 - Wohlgemuth - Hans
a) I need some help deciphering a few words/letters in [ ] below. I'm not sure about the mother's surname.
b) Also, would the three males listed above Anna be the children of Hanns and Maria, even though no ages are included?
I'm looking at family unit VII in Uster/Gutenwyl
Hanns Wohlgmut, genant KrusHans
Maria [H]änin
Heinrich } { Oberuster.
Marx } [all drei ???? ] dienend { Freu[n]dwil.
Bernhart } { Mesikon.
12. Anna p.n. S. Ded.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVK-N9D1-6?i=982&cat=529492
DGS 008126308, image 983, family VII
Risposte
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Correct URL would be https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVK-N9D1-6?i=982&cat=529492 - which I cannot open from home, however - possibly someone else can help.
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I don't recommend screen shots - downloads are to be preferred:
Right now file uploads are not possible - workaround see
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Hello Gina,
it was a good idea to include the detail image as the full page seems to be badly reduced in resolution (at least a factor of 3) - making it more or less useless for script comparisons. Could you have a look at the full page image as displayed now, please: is that what you have submitted? Anyway, I'll do my best:
VII
Hanns Wohlgmut, genant Krußhans (aka Krußhans)
Modern spelling would be Wohlgemuth. Uster is not one of their places of citizenship since before 1800, there seems to be a now extinct line in the 19th century. A pre-1800 line are Wohlgemuth of Volketswil, which is not far from Uster - whether there is a connection I can't say.
I am not sure about the ß in Krußhans: I don't find it anywhere else on the page - could be due to the poor resolution.
Maria Hänin
Difficult to say what the "correct" surname spelling would be today - could be Hahn, Hänni, Henni, … Often the Zürich Marriage Register helps here - but between 1580 an 1610 there is no marriage of a Wohlgemuth (standardised spelling) with a Maria. Doesn't have to be, but could be an indication they didn't get married in canton Zürich … possibly the wife wasn't from here either. Could be they got married in a parish where the marriage register begins too late. Have you got any other information on Maria Hänin?
Then we have three adult boys - all drej erwachsen, dienend (serving in …):
Heinrich - Oberuster
Marx - Fröüwdwÿl (Freudwil)
Bernhart - Meßikon (Mesikon)
Finally we have a daughter Anna, 12 years old: I cannot explain the abbreviations.
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Hi @WSeelentag
Thank you so much for all the comments, they are really helpful and insightful.
Gutenswil is part of the Volketswil community, so maybe they also took there citizenship from that.
RE: ß - could it be a regular 's' followed by an 'ending s'? Otherwise, possible other ß (though they don't look the same as in Krußhans, but somewhat reminiscent of modern ones) are in XIV adult son, and the last line on the right page 'Summa aller Dorfgnößigen'
I haven't been able to find any other information on Maria Hänin yet.
In your last reply it sounded like it would be accompanied by a full page image, if I understood that correctly. I haven't seen it. The full page image I submitted for upload was as it was after I downloaded it from the website (I did not adjust the size).
Can you help me with the 1637 and 1640 census entries (also in Uster-Gutenswil, ZH) for this family? I'm attaching full and detailed images for both.
My questions:
- (In reference to the first image from 1634 census) - Do you know at what age one was considered an adult?
- 1637 census – it looks like "adult 5 & 2" in front of the sons. Could that be 25 and 22?
- 1637 census - the note for the sons - it looks like “in Gallia” but I can't make out the rest? Can you decipher anything?
- 1640 census - Anna, daughter of Hans Wohlgmut - it looks like a note inserted between households VI and VII, stating that she [moved?] to [Steinen? beim Müller]. I'm just trying to understand the note, and if Steinen is a reference to a place (which I couldn't find) or something else. Any ideas?
1637 Census - Uster-Gutenswil - DGS DGS 8014136, image 321, p.587, n.VII
1640 Census - Uster-Gutenswil - DGS 7765844, image 247, p.482, between VI and VII
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I have sent you a private notice re image quality of the full page.
I cannot comment on the "ß" after comparison with another entry on that page: insufficient resolution to say anything with confidence.
If you upload the files connected to your additional questions (1637 and 1640), I'll have a look (I cannot view them myself from home).
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Thank you for mailing me the full page with full resolution. There I now found a character very close:
XI / Thyß Kägi and 15 Andreaß
I am fairly sure this is just a slightly different ß.
A "double s" with two differently written s would be new to me. Although not connected with the case here - the following might be of general interest: The development from sz to ß to ss.
I'll comment on the 1637 and 1640 separately later.
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Again - the full page images were reduced in resolution by admin, making them useless - but you had mailed me the "originals". I have marked a few words to ask for help on Geneal-Forum and posted my questions there.
As mentioned above, I am sure we have Krußhans as alias - but can it be explained?
Infront of the two sons' names we don't have numbers (ages) - together this forms a curved bracket, indicating both are adults. Both are "in Gallia" (in France) - which fits the information in 1640 that their brother Heinrich is "in Franckhreich". However, I cannot decipher the remainder of this comment.
Anna is 16 and "des Hans Wohlgmuten selig Tochter, ist zu [???] bim Müller". So her father Hans has died, brothers have likely moved out (got married?), mother not mentioned (also died?). Anna might be the only family member still living in that house (together with a new family) - so the mill would be not too far away; more likely she would be living as servant with the miller's family (mentioned as the only surviving family member not married) - but where? Note that her brother Heinrich is now listed with his own household: I have never seen that "spelling" for March before.
Further, I have tried to summarize all info (from these three pages) on "your" Wohlgemuth family in Geneal-Forum: if you have any additional info on these two generations, it would be helpful if you could post that - either here or in the forum directly.
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In the meantime Olivier has posted a few suggestions in Geneal-Forum: I hope you have "subscribed" to the topic - you would then be notified automatically about any new contributions.
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@WSeelentag I apologize for the delayed reply. Thank you for all your replies and for adding the topic in Geneal-Forum (and mentioning the 'subscribe' option). I'm learning a lot along the way.
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