Translation request, please: 2 Marriages in Grevesműhlen, 1763
There are two marriages on the page below from Grevesműhlen that I am having trouble with, and would appreciate translations for, if possible.
On 23 Sept 1763 Jűrgen Leppin married someone whose name I can't decipher, though I think the surname is Bibo[w], a common one in the area. He is from Hamberge and she is from Warnow. If someone could translate her name and if there is anything else I'm missing or have mistranslated, please correct me!
Later, in November, the 28th I think (very near the bottom of the page) there is another Leppin marriage. Heinrich? Friedrich? Also from Hamberge. I can't decipher either the first or last name of his bride, nor where she is from. If you can translate this for me, I'd be very very grateful.
Thank you so much. Barbara
The two entries enlarged are here:
The image can be see most clearly on Archion:
https://www.archion.de/en/viewer/churchRegister/271966?cHash=9e6d2faa2ce22d84c982e36129d25f8d
Miglior Risposta
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Hello Barbara,
The female names "Trin" and "Trine" are fairly common in the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern area. According to Ernest Thode, German-English Genealogical Dictionary (p. 254), the names Trin, Trina, Trincke, Trine, Tringen, Trini, Trinke, Trien, and Triene, are all variant forms of the name Katharina.
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Risposte
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The scrawl of this pastor is actually very difficult to read, and even in the enlarged clippings not fully clear (I don't have access to Archion).
In the first record the name of the bride looks like Trine Fl_sch_? Bibo_?, but I can't come up with a middle name that fits.
The second record is even more blurry and I don't dare to guess.
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Hello Barbara,
In the first record I read the bride's name as: Trin(e) Elsche Bibo_?
In the second record (the date is 28 Oct 1763) , the groom's first name appears to be: Hinrich. I am unable to decipher the bride's name.
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that the word both @Ulrich Neitzel and @Robert Seal_1 have read as "Trine" might actually be "Frau." The reason I say this is that in almost all of the other entries, the bride's name is proceeded by Jgfr or Wittwe.
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Good observation @sylviaelchinger1 ! The question is then what it means - a woman who was not a maiden (virgin) and not a widow was usually not even called "Frau".
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Thank you very much, @Ulrich Neitzel , @Robert Seal_1 and @sylviaelchinger1 for your translations and insights into the Leppin marriages in Grevesmühlen. I'm afraid that the original scan in Archion is not much of an improvement, so seeing that version might not have helped much. This pastor has a lot to answer for! Not just for his handwriting, but for his tendency to record a death as "Gäderts kind" or a bride as "Wittwe Leppinin."
I appreciate your taking the time to scrutinize the records and offering help and suggestions. As for the "Frau" and "Trin[e]" options, I will have a further look for baptisms of this couples' children in the hope that the pastor will have named a mother (not likely, but I live in hope). Also, @Robert Seal_1, thank you for the "Oct" correction to my "Nov."
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Here is the link to the same record from Ancestry:
Compare the "T" in Trin(e) to the "F" in Friedrich in the record immediately above. They look different. Also, why would the woman be called "Frau" and not "Jungfrau" or "Wittwe" in this context? Isn't "Frau" an honoric applied to a living married woman?
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@Robert Seal_1, I see what you mean about the 'F' in Friedrich. Is that a 'T' in the second word in the marriage below that Leppin marriage? If it's not, what is it?
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Hi Robert, Thanks for the quote from Ernest Thode. I'm going to have to get a copy of his Genealogical Dictionary. It seems really comprehensive. I was familiar with Trin, Trine and Trina from Katharina, but still couldn't read the handwriting with any confidence. I have seen Trin/Trina frequently in Mecklenburg records that had handwriting I could read. This one I simply didn't have enough expertise to be sure of. Reading this script is a work in progress for me!
That's why I enquired about the second word in the marriage entry below Jűrgen Leppin's marriage. It looks like a capital T to me, but again, I'm not sure. Maybe it's a J. I'm not familiar with that name. Thank you!
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Hi Barbara,
In the record you are referring to, you are correct that the second word begins with a capital T. The second word is "Tambour" which translates as: drummer. The groom is some type of drummer (I can't decipher the word before "Tambour") and the groom's name is: Johann Gottfried König. Where did I get the translation for the word "Tambour"? Thode, of course, who translates the word as: (mil.) drummer = (military) drummer.
Thode is an excellent reference book. I refer to it multiple times each day. He also includes many Latin words which is very helpful indeed.
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Thank you, Robert. I have just ordered a copy. I should have it on Friday. Now i need to make sense of the letters so I can look up the words!
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