Quebec 1906 Baptism record
Have a French Baptism record that I am trying to translate. I don't know French, however I can make out some name info. The problem is that the names on the two baptism records for the children are not the name of my ancestors and whats on their Birth Certificates. I see that the parents names and location they lived in are correct. I know I have the right record. Is there anyway they could have used different names, being how the record is in French. I'm very confused?
Commenti
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Can you post a link to the baptism record, or give the name, date and parish so we can look at it?
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Hello, Thank you for your response. I apologize, That I don't know how to download the record. However, I found this on Ancestry titled - Quebec Canada Vital Church Records ( Drouin Collection) 1621-1968. FamilySearch has the record too but I wasn't able to pull it up. Dated March 1906. There are two baptism records under B 134 and B 135. Letter (B) being the last name. Last name is Bongartz. Parents names: Peter and Latita (Smith) of New York. I believe the 2 children on this record is my Grandmother and her sister. I knew that they were living in Quebec for a period of this time and were origianlly from NY USA. Peter had passed away in 1904, however his name is mentioned in this Baptism record. My dilema is that I want to figure out a real Birth date for my Grandmother, because she doesn't have one out of NY, as she claims on census records. We never knew her because my Father was in 34 foster homes and the paper trail I have shows me she used her sisters name and different alias through out her life. I wanted to let you know why I am confused by the names on this record. My Grandmothers name is Mabel Bongartz (DOB June 1901/1902) according to the Census (Not birth cert. I don't have one) Sisters name Grace Angela Bongartz (6/9/1899. I believe these are the two children on these records getting baptised at the same time. The names don't make any sence or add up at all. Peter and Latita or Letitia had 5 children 2 boys that passed away prior to 1900. So they wouldn't be the ones on this record. 3 Daughters Letitia (JR) after mother born in 1893 and Grace and Mabel listed above. The names of these children on this record isnt any of these ancestors. I know for sure this is their record. The parents names add up and location of NY. Also I forgot to mention... The two childrens names on the records are Marie Geraldine canride??? and xxxx angela hermas Bongartz???? Not 100% sure hard to read. I was wondering if its possible that my Grandmother Mable had a differnt given name and "Mabel" was a knickname? When my Grandmother was in her 20's She used her Sister Grace Angela name on all her records, up intil she passed away. Her sister the real Grace Angela, always kept her name straight. Sorry, for the confusion as I have been confused for 27 years now myself. Any help or insight would be much appreciated, Thank you Sincerely
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The records are from a parish in Montreal. The B in the margin (with the number) stands for baptism. Other records are burials (letter S) and marriages (letter M). The numbers 134 and 135 indicate these are the 134th and 135th baptisms in that parish that year — so it is a big parish. The children are being baptized later than usual - generally baptisms are shortly after birth, often the same day or the next one. Marie Geraldine Candide Bongartz was age 13 when she was baptized and is from New York, in the US. Marie Angele Hermas Bongartz is four years old. No godfather is names for either child (unusual) but each has a godmother.
The names given include saint names. Both have Marie as their first given name - that is a saint name. Marie Geraldine Candide signed her full name in the register, that is her signature. Her sister did not sign, being younger. It looks like the godmother for both is Angele Ruffier, of Hochelaga (another Montreal area parish). The record indicates Peter, the father, is deceased. The mother is living.
I am not clear on whether they were actually living in Montreal or were brought there just for the baptism. Geraldine Candide was born abt 1893, based on her age; Angele Hermas was born abt 1902.
It is possible they went by other names but Marie Geraldine Candide did sign that name herself.
It is possible Angele Ruffier was helping or taking care of them at the time, or at least supporting them in their baptism.
Due to the age of the children at baptism, the record does not verify specific birth date, which probably happened in NY.
I am not an expert but that is what I take from these records.
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There is a newspaper clipping (death announcement) for Peter in the St. Albany (VT) Messenger newspaper, which tells quite a bit about him. It is in Ancestry,com. He was born in 1861 in Germany. I am not at home right now so I can’t paste it in, but perhaps I can tomorrow night, if you don’t find it first. The one I see lists his wife but just says he has 3 daughters.
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Ancestry has a birth record for Grace Angela Bongartz, born 9 June 1899 in Brooklyn, daughter of Peter and Letitia.
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Thank You so much for this information. Yes, I do have the information regarding Peter Bongartz death in VT and Grace Angela Bongartz birth. Regading the Baptism record in Quebec, they stayed sometimes with an Aunt that is not the mention on this record. Her name was Mathlide Bongartz. I believe the Marie Geraldine is Letitia the Daughter, she was the only one that was born in 1893. Angel Hermas must be my Grandmother, because she was born in 1901 or 1902. You have given me some insite about this Baptism record. Makes scense when you are saying letter "B" is for Baptism not last name. Although, I have some more information, I am confused on why the names were not their given names. since their was only 3 daughters. Thank you again for your help and time! I wanted to ask you Please and only if you have time if you would be able to help me figure out a name on a 1911 census in Quebec Canada with the same children mentioned above. I need a second opinion on one of the names on the census record. If you don't have time or just can't help, I totally understand. I can ask someone else on the message board! If you can help, I will send you the info on the record. This is just so I can make scense about this (Hermas) name that I saw something that may have a connection on this name? Thank You Again Kindly
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I don't know if you have this but it is quite nice. There also is an article from Brooklyn Daily Eagle in 1894 that tells about the customs inspectors and their work. It describes in detail the work they do - it mentions (briefly) Peter, who worked night shift (the reporter profiled some of the day workers in more detail). Let me know if you would like that. It is indexed in Ancestry.com and is from Newspapers.com.
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If you would like to send me a link to the 1911 census, I would be happy to look. I am unable to find an entry for them without further information.
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Dear Linda, ( I am presuming your first name)
Thank you for follow-up and Obit on Peter. Yes, I do have that copy and I am a subscriber to Newspapers,com. I would appreciate another pair of eyes for the Quebec 1911 census, However I am not computer smart to send you the link. If you are able to look it up based on the info I give you maybe you could possibly take a look at it? There are two Sister Grace Angela Bongartz and Mabel (looks like Hermanse) ?? No last name bongartz ( Unless the Enumerator ran out of room to write or assuming the last name as the Sister Grace? They are living with their Aunt listed as the head or Chef. The Aunts name is Mathilde Ehman ( I was able to find record, just by putting in the last name Ehman. The census also shows when the girls came in Quebec , However I had no luck on passenger or immigration records.
I am confused, as to what this last name Hermanse means? if she is Bongartz, I don't know much about Baptism records or French names, but nothing is adding up to me? On the baptism record you transcribe for me shows my Grandmother as Angele Hermas. (Ironically the God Mothers first name was Angele as well) I am wondering if it is possible that she wasn't given a actual name yet , although she was 4 years old at the baptism? The last name Hermas and Hermanse listed above are close to a match?
I searched fo 25 years thinking that my Grandmothers first and middle name was "Grace Angela" Now to this day . I still dont know? Theres no Birth Cert, To collababorate with. She is listed on 2 different cenus as first name Mabel, She married at age 19 as (Mabel) to a husband in the Army , they were in the philiipines where he was stationed. She desereted the Husband in the phillipines and came back on a ship record using her Sister Grace Angela name. Every paper trail from there is Grace Angela( No more Mabel) On 2 marriage licenses, Her SSI application 1940 she lists all these weird different names for her Parents that don't make scense or even add up. No mention of the parents names Peter and Letitia Bongartz. On her Death certificate parents are listed (Unknown) Also, to make maters worse, she claims her birth year was 1893 same as her other sister (Letitia Jr) If she says on 2 different census and on that baptism record she was born around 1902? I don't understand why someone would want to make themselves that much older born in 1893? That is about a ten year gap. Maybe, my Grandmother was mentally ill or had a confusing young life or was hiding something. Nothing makes any scense. In closing I want to mention, Peter Bongartz and his Family migrated from Germany and were in the pharmaceutical profession, they were well educated in doctorate for generations in the New York and New Jersey area and owned and operated several Pharmacies. After finding this information, I don't understand why my Grandmother would go to such extreme to Lie, Change her idenity and never have anything to do with her family after she was 19 and got married. I apologize for boring you with so much information. but I want you to understand the whole picture to why I am so confused with my Grandmothers "Real Name" and Birthdate. Maybe she wasn't born in a Hospital or Maternity facility , but she should have a real Birthdate. Her death cert, says she was born in 6/28/1893. I know for a fact that I have the right information, As some might think . I am getting her mixed up with her Sisters.
Thank you kindly for looking at that 1911 census record. I would appreciate a second opinion on what you thought about that "Hermanse " name? I also, thought maybe Mabel was fathered by someone different than Peter Bongartz. I ruled out with a search by looking for the last name "Hermase" on Peters Bongartz Obit , he claims to have 3 Daughters . which does add up. Again, I want to express my gratitude for your help. As this Census is the last thing I need help with.
Regards
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I looked at the 1911 census and found them. Yes, I believe it is Mathilde Ehman, born March 1856 in Germany, with her nieces, Angela Grace, born June 1899 and Mabel Hermance, born June 1901, both born in New York. Angela Grace came to Canada in 1908, Mabel Hermance came to Canada in 1909. They are living in Ste. Anne de Beaupre, up by Quebec City (nowhere near Montreal).
Interestingly, I found Mathilde Ehman's husband, Conrad Ehman, died and was buried at Ste. Anne de Beaupre on 26 Jan 1911, at age 58, per the parish records. Mathilde his wife is named in his burial record as his surviving spouse. I found no record of them in an earlier Canada census.
I tried to find information about the godmother, but could not find her in records. I will keep looking. Angele (Angela) was the name of one of Peter's sisters, but it is a common name in Quebec.
I found a cute news item stating that Letitia Bongartz was among the junior students of the Leach Music school giving a recital, published in the St. Albans Messenger on May 9, 1905. She played an Allegretto Study from the instruction book. Since she was quite early in the program (3rd), I am assuming she is one of the younger students. (St. Albans Messenger is a local paper, highlighting local things and local people in the area where Richford was. The concert was probably a big deal for the families and local people, no famous teacher is named so it was probably more local kids having a recital to show their hard work to family and friends.)
In the 1892 New York census, I found Peter and Letitia with a 1-year-old child, Elmer Bongartz. The 1900 census indicates they were married 10 years (1890), but it also says Letitia was mother of 2 children, both living.
In 1910, I found Lettie Bongartz, age 17, and Mabel Bongartz, age 8, boarding with John E. Gutfleisch, in Manhattan.
I believe children baptized at age 4 had names they went by. I believe they would have been baptized at that time because someone thought it was important for their religion (Catholic). The girls are listed as Catholic in the 1911 census, as is their aunt (and about everyone else on the page). I am not sure their parents (Peter and Letitia) were Catholic; thus the late baptism(?) when it was someone else's decision.
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Thanks for looking at the Census. Yes, I saw that recital and I was aware of Mathildes huband Conrads D.O.D. Also the two sisters living basically alone in NY 1910. I was wondering what you thought about the name Mabel Hermanse? Do you think that was a different last name than the sister Grace a. Bongartz Or do you think Hermanse is a French or German name for something else? Thank You
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