Town of Basdorf
Hello everyone,
I am in search for records for my 5th great grandmother, Maria Elisabeth Greiss or Greis. She was a maid in Hoisten which is where she married my 5th great grandfather, Heinrich Hecker. Her marriage record said she was from Basdorf. The only Basdorf I can find is right outside of Berlin which is very far from Hoisten which is near Cologne. This would have been in the late 1700s. Not sure how likely it is that she from the Basdorf that is near Berlin but thought I would take a look at their churchbooks. I haven't had luck finding any archives with the church books. Any advice?
To be thorough, I already scrolled through the churchbooks for similar named towns near Hoisten including Badorf, Bonsdorf and Busdorf with no luck. I haven't even come across her surname. Here is their marriage record for context. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Patricia
Commenti
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It's a long shot and probably not the right town, but I'd try Gustorf.
The town in the record very much looks like it starts with a B when compared to other capital B's in the same record and Gustorf (as Gusdorf) is mentioned in another record on the same page with a very clear G. So I doubt that Gustorf is right but I cannot find another option that is closer so if it were me I'd give it a try just to rule it out.
Boisdorf is another option
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/10202062
Büsdorf is another option and not very far:
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@JohnsonGreg thanks for the recommendations. I check Gustdorf, Busdorf and Bonsdorf with no luck...hoping someone has some experience with researching in Berlin or near Berlin?? Maybe she was indeed from Basdorf.
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I think a location as far as Berlin is very unlikely. People (especially young women) usually did not move that far from their home when looking for an employment. Also, if true the scribe would have added some explanation, otherwise no one would know what or where "Basdorf" is.
It seems more likely that it is a place name that has "disappeared" over time, perhaps because it was incorporated into a larger town.
Another hint: When I enter the name "Greis" into the name distribution map the main occurrences seem to be in western Germany (https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Greis), especially near Cologne. The map data is from a later time (1890) but people did not move far in the past.
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@Ulrich Neitzel thank you. I didn't realize that town names disappeared. Maybe I will fan out and check all the books again around Hoisten! Maybe I will get lucky. I wish I knew her father's name. I found one of her children that died at birth and then a second one (my ancestor) that didn't have a sponsor with surname of Greis.
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Hi,
There is a Maria Elisabetha Greussen / Gruissen born/baptized at Hülchrath on Februar 23rd, 1784. Ofcourse that is a completely different name of the village but I was still wondering whether there might possibly be a connection between the name Greussen and Greiss.
I was also wondering whether "Bas-dorf" could be a combination of French and German and just mean "the lower village". Hülchrath was, I think I read somewhere under French rule during the year that Heinrich Hecker and Maria Elisabetha Greis got married. But I don't really have any idea of the history.
@Ulrich Neitzel, please, what do you think about that?
Kind regards, Christine
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If I understand it correctly, there are only two aspects that connect Maria Elisabetha Greussen with Maria Elisabetha Greis - the first names and the closeness of Hülchrath and Hoisten. Both the surnames and the places of birth seem to be different. I think that makes it pretty unlikely that these are the same people.
It is true that this area was under French rule after the Napoleonic wars (1794-1813), but the place names remained German. However, the French Code Civil became mandatory which meant that civil marriage was required before church marriage. So there should be a civil marriage record for Maria Elisabeth and Heinrich Hecker which probably also contains more detailed information about their residence, place of birth and parents. I am not sure if and where the records for this area are available online.
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@Ulrich Neitzel and @hehesani63 thank you for all your insight. I’m hopeful that I will solve this mystery. I did send an email to the Nordhein Westfalen archives to see if they had any advice. I will report back if I hear anything. 👍🏻
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Such an interesting search! Hopefully the archives of Nordrhein Westfalen can help you out. I'll keep this discussion bookmarked so I get notified when you enter new information.
Thank you @Ulrich Neitzel for your expertise! I checked for the civil records of the French years and they don't seem to be online yet. They are at the Duisburg branch of the Nordrhein Westfalen Archives.
Kind regards,
Christine
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@Ulrich Neitzel @hehesani63 I received this reply from the archives! I am so excited. My research has opened up. Thought you might want to see..
Dear Ms Cook,
Her ancestor Maria Elisabeth Greis did not come from Basdorf, but from Boisdorf , a town near Kerpen that disappeared in 1965 as a result of brown coal mining. This was parish in Hemmersbach, St. Clemens .
I would like to point out to you that the church records of the Catholic community of Hemmersbach, St. Clemens, which we keep under PA 1101 BA 0882-0885, can already be viewed in digital form on the Internet. The images, which can even be freely downloaded if necessary, are linked to the respective descriptions in the online finding aid 511.01.01 at https://www.archive.nrw.de/archivsuche?link=KLASSIFIKATION-Klas_84f2617e-7448-434d-9733-43f5bba8540d .
With the help of documents stored here relating to the civil marriage of Henri Jaque (!) Hecker and Marie Elise Greiss, which took place in Hülchrath on October 19, 1809 (see PA 2103 Hülchrath H 1809, document 18 in conjunction with PA 2303 No. 2636, for document 18 ) I was able to find the following church register entries:
· Baptism of Maria Elisabetha Greis, daughter of Arnoldus Greis and Catharina Schmitz, * in Boisdorf, ~ April 28, 1785 in the Catholic parish of Hemmersbach, St. Clemens, under PA 1101 BA 0883, p. 37 à image file: https://dfg- viewer.de/show?tx_dlf%5Bdouble%5D=0&tx_dlf%5Bid%5D=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.landesarchiv-nrw.de%2Fdigitalisate%2FPersonenstandsarchiv_Rhld%2FKirchenbuecher%2FBA%2F~008%2F0883%2Fmets.xml&tx_dlf% 5Bpage%5D=38&cHash=f9c5afa2962b875a86f9f630080bc3fa ,
· Death of Catharina Schmitz, wife of Arnoldus Greis, + (50 years old) in Boisdorf, buried on April 4th, 1793 in the Catholic parish of Hemmersbach, St. Clemens, under PA 1101 BA 0885, p. 31 à Image file: https://dfg- viewer.de/show?tx_dlf%5Bdouble%5D=0&tx_dlf%5Bid%5D=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.landesarchiv-nrw.de%2Fdigitalisate%2FPersonenstandsarchiv_Rhld%2FKirchenbuecher%2FBA%2F~008%2F0885%2Fmets.xml&tx_dlf% 5Bpage%5D=33&cHash=dfe68512e022c8dd4047b690043e6952
If you are interested, please find out more entries about the Greis / Schmitz family that may be contained in the Hemmersbach church registers yourself using the digital copies available on the Internet (see the link above).
Kind regards and best wishes for 2024
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Hi Patricia, congratulations! That's what we all love about family research. And kudos to the archivist for such a quick and extensive answer.
PS: I see that @JohnsonGreg had already the correct Boisdorf on his list 😄
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How wonderful!! And such an interesting story with the village having disappeared because of the coal mining! Well done!
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Do I understand correctly that the civil marriage record for Henri Jaque Hecker and Marie Elise is not yet online?
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Hi,
I had checked for this record online and could not find it. I think there are lots of records from the Elsass online in the French archives but this one from, I think, the Departement de la Roer, I could not find. It sounds from his e-mail as if the archivist used "records stored here". Ofcourse it would be great to know if the records are online somewhere.
Kind regards, Christine
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@Ulrich Neitzel @hehesani63 I did respond to the archivist and asked if I could request a copy of this record. I'm guessing he will let me know if it is open to the public or if it is online.
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@Ulrich Neitzel @hehesani63 question for you. Boisdorf was near Hemmersbach. It looks like it was right outside the borders of Electorate of Cologne during that time. I can't find a really good map with borders. Would you be able to confirm what area that town would have been a part of?
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The entire area west of the river Rhine was occupied by France from 1794 to 1813 (and annexed by France in 1801); see https://wir-rheinlaender.lvr.de/rheinland_franzosen/1794_1815.htm (in German, please translate with Google or DeepL).
Before that time there was a patchwork of smaller sovereign territories. As far as I can tell Hemmersbach belonged to the Duchy (Herzogtum) of Jülich or Jülich-Berg (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_J%C3%BClich-Berg) which was a dominion of the Electoral Prince of Palatinate-Bavaria.
Here is a map of that area before the French occupation:
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