Birth document search in Portsea Hampshire
I am trying to find the birth document of George Jones Raymond b. abt. 1854 in Portsea Hampshire. Issue of 8 Sep1854 marriage in Portsea of Daniel Jones (b. 1834) and Sarah Raymond (1838 - 1907). Sarah married twice more after that and moved to Australia. No idea why George would take the last name of the mother.
Thank you in advance for your help
Bernard
Commenti
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The simple answer would be that George was born illegitimately to Sarah Raymond, shortly before her marriage to Daniel Jones. However, as you appear to have found, there is no recording of a birth registration (in either name) at Portsea, during this period.
I have found the September 1853 registered marriage (not 1854, as you state) at Portsea between Daniel Jones and Sarah Catherine Raymond, but nothing to link the couple - and George - in subsequent census records.
It would be of help if you could advise of the documents / records you have viewed where they are to be found after 1853. Otherwise, it could be difficult for anyone to assist here.
Incidentally, I wonder how sure you are of Sarah's 1838 birth? This would mean her only being 15 years old at her (1853) marriage.
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I'm afraid I don't have time to work out the confusing connections, but I suggest you take a close look at the Family Tree profiles of these three individuals.
Against George Jones Raymond (G66N-GLW) is the suggestion that his father was George Tilbery Raymond. His age at 1870 marriage is shown as 20 and this ties in with the George Jones (mother TILBREY) Portsea birth registration found in the GRO index.
Sarah Catherine Raymond (MZWY-LM4) appears to be the daughter of Hezekiah Raymond and is found in his household in the 1851 census, with a George Tilberry also being in the same household.
Daniel Jones' identity is confirmed at his MVZ4-DC2 profile.
All very confusing at first sight, but I hope the sources added to these individuals will help you work out an answer to the naming riddle.
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I have continued working on this family, where there appears to have been quite some confusion over identities and births. I will try to come back tomorrow to see what I can discover further, but I still can't work out the original question about George Jones Raymond. Again, it would help if you could clarify where you have seen the name in that form, and with a c1854 birthdate.
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I just opened up a FamilySearch record relating to the marriage of George Raymond (G66N-GLW in Family Tree) and who does appear to be the individual of whom you are raising your question. Here is the link: ttps://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6NXX-8CKF.
As you can see from there, his father is listed not as Daniel Jones, but as George Tibery Raymond. I now suspect George Jones Raymond to have been born illegitimately in 1850 to the George Tiberry (variant spellings of surname) found in the Raymond household in the 1841 & 1851 census and (Sarah) Catherine Raymond.
I will try to view the birth certificate, as there are two matters that do put my theory in doubt. Firstly, the GRO birth index shows George JONES (not Raymond) in the entry, with the mother's maiden name shown as TILBREY. Secondly, where is the infant George in 1851? I am yet to find him in the census records.
I have a little spare time this morning (GMT) so will try to look further.
BTW - I would strongly recommend trying to get in touch with Rosemarie Carmen (using the link by her name to send an internal message), as she has made many of the inputs to the family branch, only last year.
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Paul, Thanks for all the help. I will review the comments you made this weekend.
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Bernard - After all my rambling comments in the Collaboration / Notes section of George Jones Raymond's Family Tree profile (at G66N-GLW) I have come to the conclusion that this might be a "simple" case of a missing birth record. George names his father as "George Tilbery Raymond" at his 1870 marriage, but his father is shown as Daniel Jones in his 1887 death record. Could this be a case of George TILBERY being the father of Sarah Catherine RAYMOND? They are in the same household for the 1841 & 1851 census, but George Tilbery (various surname variants) was married to Sarah Catherine's half-sister, Caroline Raymond. (I have traced them through the census to their deaths at Alverstoke and they do not appear to have had any children themselves.) As it was strictly a legal requirement to register births in England & Wales until the 1870s, it is possible this one has been omitted from official records. Unfortunately, the Queensland Death Index does not show an age at death - although these can be inaccurate, of course.
I will leave the 1851 & 1861 census records of George Jones (son of William Jones & Sarah Jane Tilbrey) attached to G66N-GLW for the time being. Of course, there would be no 1851 census record for "your" George if he was born after 1851, as you originally suggested, but there should still be a 1861 census record for him out there!
Hope I have not been more of a hindrance than a help, but at least I believe I have mentioned to straighten out some other facts in the wider, family branches here!
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Just noticed a slip in my last post. I meant, "Could this be a case of George TILBERY being the father of George Jones Raymond?", of course.
I've made some further checks, but will send them in a personal message later. (Click on the envelope icon top right of page.)
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