Two capital letters
I don't recognize the first letters of these two names from a 1787 Alsace birth record--any suggestions? I looked through several pages of the record, but didn't see any others like them. For each, the name in the record is presented in the image below followed by their own signature.
Abraham ?uirard
Jacob ?iff
Thanks!
Migliori Risposte
-
I read Abraham Guinard (not sure at all about his signature) and Jacob Riff.
1 -
Hi,
This is such an interesting geographical area with its bilingual population.
Here is my theory (!) about Abraham’s last name:
In your document the name is actually „Guiward“, which is a misspelling or alternative spelling of „Guward“ or „Gouward“. This name is a German way to write the family name „Gova“.
I have two sources in the church books from Bischweiler, Abraham’s hometown, in which his name together with his profession „butcher“ are mentioned:
1) A birth certificate in which his son Abraham[jr.] is a godfather. To legitimize young and still unmarried Abraham [jr.], his father, the butcher „Abraham Gouward“ is mentioned.
Abraham [jr.] signs his name as „Gouwa“
Here the link, it’s no. 31:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSRY-87WJ?cat=122559
2) The birth certificate of the above mentioned Abraham [jr.] from 1770 in a French church book from Bischweiler. The father’s name is „Abraham Gova“ and his profession is „boucher“ (= butcher).
Here is the link, it’s no. 115.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSRY-684S?cc=4116416&cat=250371
I wonder whether you think that this might possibly be the solution.
Regards, Christine
1
Risposte
-
I'm leaning toward Abraham Guirard for the first and Jacob Riff.
1 -
Thanks both @WSeelentag and @JohnsonGreg. Jacob Riff definitely works since I find Riff family names in later French records for the town. I couldn't find any Guirard in the area, though, but I agree -- that was my first thought, too, though was considering P and possibly F and Z too. I was also initially confused by the different G used in the child's name Gottfried in the preceding record, but I see that it is probably the fancier formal version like the J is in the child's name Jacob in my record on the right (versus a more cursive J among the witness names). Thanks!
0 -
Hi,
Please excuse the kind of uninformed question. Did you also check for the alternate spelling "Girard" when you searched? There are a lot of Abraham Girards in familysearch.
Regards, Christine
1 -
Thanks Christine @hehesani63, I can't find any Girards in this area. Also, looking some more at other records in the same register, this capital letter doesn't match the 'G' used in Georg, and looking at it some more, I'm seeing the first image it as 'Ch', but still can't make sense of his own signature version (the second one)
I hadn't put the original reference:
Archives Départementales du Bas-Rhin; Oberhoffen-sur-Moder - Paroisse protestante (Avant 1793) - Registre de baptêmes 1768-1787 - 3 E 345/4; https://archives.bas-rhin.fr/detail-document/ETAT-CIVIL-C342-P2-R206948#visio/page:ETAT-CIVIL-C342-P2-R206948-2317081; Image 197 of 206
0 -
Christine @hehesani63 : you absolutely nailed it! I had considered that 'w' but didn't see any obvious matches and thought it looked too much like other 'r's in the record. Great sleuthing!
Tom
0