Fisher family from the Colquhoun clan
We need help identifying the Fisher family from the Colquhoun clan.
In the words of Emil Fisher's grand-daughter (Leila Moulton Fisher), "He (Lord Calquhoun) was an English lord who fought a duel after duels were outlawed. He fled to the continent and landed in Germany where he married a German woman and took her name. Our ancestor on the Fisher side."
Duels were outlawed in Britain in 1654.
I can find no ancestral information for Emil Fisher (1821-1873).
Has anyone else in either of these families come across a similar story?
If he changed his name, how do we tie the Fisher family to the Colquhouns and when?
Risposte
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Leaving a comment to put at the top of Discussions
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You need to know a specific town in order to research this line. Do you know it? Once you have the town, you can search parish records for Emil. It is difficult to connect a person from an early time period to someone who was born many years later. Start with Emil and work back. If you don't know much about Emil, drop back to his children's generation and thoroughly research them for clues to lead to him.
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Also note that the name "Fisher" would typically be spelled Fischer" in German.
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Thank you for the advice.
I've been trying what you've suggested for a few months. I seem to be at a dead end and I don't have much to go on. He was born in Saxony; married a woman from Maryland; buried in Baltimore. His children's children led me to him and the trail has gone cold. I only have the story I initially posted as a clue. I imagine I'll get better at investigating/searching as I go.
Or perhaps there is someone else working on this family from another angle.
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Steve--
Do you have his complete name, birth date, and death date? His wife's complete name, birth date, death date? Their marriage date? Parents' names? I am thinking they were both buried in Baltimore? This would help us all that are looking for you. PaulaAnn
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PaulaAnn, thank you.
I do have that information, sans marriage and parents. They were all buried in Loudon Park Cemetery in Baltimore, save one (the youngest son). Interestingly, the third child's middle name was "Colquhoun". I think this reaffirms, or at least lends credibility to, the story by his grand-daughter.
If anyone is on this trail, everything I have is associated with the ID: GXHQ-P8X
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Since this family was in Baltimore, have you tried searching for them here? https://ofb.genealogy.net/baltimore/ This is the oldest German church in Baltimore and has listings for Fischers and Fischers.
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@Steve Hardin Here is his 1870 passport application which confirms his birth date (matching his gravestone date) and Saxony as place of birth (matching several other records). It also gives another forename of "Franc" (possibly Franz in Saxony).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DC-F94F-Q?i=78&cc=2185145
This is great because you have a high degree of confidence in his birth date and country. What you really need to find is the name of the village in Saxony. I suggest:
1 Get a copy of his civil death certificate in Baltimore. It may give his village of birth.
2 Get a copy of his civil marriage record. This likely occurred between 1858- 1862 in Baltimore since his wife seems to have lived in Baltimore.
3 Find all his children's birth, marriage and death certificates. One of them might give their father's place of birth.
4 See if you can figure out what church they went to in Baltimore. There may be a church record of their marriage or his death that gives his place of birth.
5 Search newspapers in Baltimore (including german language papers) to see if you can find his obituary.
6 See if you can get a copy of his naturalization from 1860.
7 Since he applied for a passport in 1870, perhaps he traveled back home to visit family. Search for any ships logs that might show him traveling to or returning from Saxony after 1870.
Overall comment: Many records that are available have not been indexed so it is not a simple matter of performing a search in familysearch or ancestry. You'll often have to find unindexed records and grind through them looking for your ancestors in the right time period. If you are lucky you may find them digitized online and can look through them from home. If unlucky, you may have to find where the records are stored and go there to examine them.
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I checked some online german papers at this site
https://theancestorhunt.com/blog/historic-german-american-newspapers-online/
and found Emil's death/funeral announcement in the 5 May, 1879 edition of Der Deutsche Correspondent, Baltimore, Md. 2nd column, about half way down.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045081/1879-05-05/ed-1/seq-2/
Es starb
am 3 marz* 1879, Emil Fischer, 51 jahre, 5 monate, und 4 tage alt
Verwandte und freunde des verstorbenen sind hiermit höflichst zu der heute nachmittag um 2 uhr stattfinderden beerdigung vom trauerhaus nr 139 Fahettestrasse? eingeladen.
die trauernde gattin nebst kindern
Translation:
Died
on March* 3, 1879, Emil Fischer, 51 years, 5 months, and 4 days old
Relatives and friends of the deceased are hereby cordially invited to the funeral, which will take place this afternoon at 2 a.m. at the funeral home at number 139 West Fayette? street.
The mourning wife and children
*This is the 5 May 1879 paper so the March death date seems to be a type setting error. Should be 3 May. Unfortunately it doesn't give his hometown.
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If you look farther in the Baltimore newspaper that @JohnsonGreg mentioned, you'll find a description of Emil Fischer's funeral here - https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045081/1879-05-06/ed-1/seq-4/#date1=1879&sort=date&rows=20&words=Emil+Fischer&searchType=basic&sequence=0&index=0&state=Maryland&date2=1879&proxtext=emil+fischer&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=2 in the middle of the 5th column on the page. Excerpt below lists the pallbearers and several of his relatives in attendance. It also gives his birth date as 29 August 1827 in Leipzig.
Here's another article from 5 May (also middle of the 5th column) that says he had long suffered from "Kehlkopfschwindsucht" - laryngeal consumption?
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Here's a record for the birth of Franz Emil Fischer in Leipzig on 30 August 1827 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9971-YVRJ?i=8&cc=2040001&cat=638260
But it appears to be a civil registration index and gives no details.
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Thank you @sylviaelchinger1 !, I completely missed those other two articles. Great information for @Steve Hardin ! A nice history of his journey to NY and Baltimore and his trade in Baltimore. And now he knows where in Saxony to search for more records.
Edit: The obituary mentions an older brother Anton Fischer of Washington (DC) , a sister Amalie Schultze and brother-in-law A. Schultze (her husband). I was curious if any tree had been developed for his siblings that might show their parents. Unfortunately not. Here is Anton:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G95H-7NF
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/38440398/anton-david-fischer
There is no ID yet for Amalie but here are some of her records:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102404073/amalie-schultze
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MN3S-5NR
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNQC-VFQ
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3KK-WPN
The leipzig civil records that sylvia found above have each of their births recorded with the same house number 1375. Anton has an additional forename of David. Amalie has an additional forename Henri[ette].
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The Leipzig civil records.
David Anton Fisher born 18 Jan 1824, house no. 1375:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89WM-MXQ?i=638&cc=2040001&cat=638260
Franz Emil Fischer born 30 Aug 1827, house no. 1375:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9971-YVRJ?i=8&cc=2040001&cat=638260
Henriette Amalie Fischer born 16 September 1830, house no. 1375:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L971-YNPP?i=11&cc=2040001&cat=638260
In the first two records the father's occupation is some type of hired help, in the last record he is a shoemaker. Unfortunately none give the parents names.
Try to get the death certificates for Emil's siblings Anton and Amalie also. They might include their parents names.
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Someone on ancestry has the father of Emil's brother Anton Fischer (in Washington DC) as Adolph G Fischer. The source is this interesting bio for one of Anton's son Carlos who was a cellist. It states that his grandfather was Adolph G Fischer, a flutist in Liepzig who apparently played for Mendelssohn.
This story is, however, inconsistent with the occupations listed in the above 3 civil birth records for the siblings Anton, Emil and Amalie.
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Here's the obit for Anton Fischer in Washington DC, 1891 - https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045462/1891-07-14/ed-1/seq-8/#date1=1770&sort=date&date2=1963&words=Anton+Fischer&language=&sequence=0&lccn=&index=10&state=District+of+Columbia&rows=20&ortext=&proxtext=anton+fischer&year=&phrasetext=&andtext=&proxValue=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=26
It says son Carl studied abroad for the wholesale china and crockery business, so what are we to make of the supposed cellist? Interesting background for Anton, confirming the Leipzig birthplace and ties to brother Emil in Baltimore.
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Here's something else from Compgen.de -
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/15515710
that shows the same three children, Franz Emil, David Anton, and Henriette Amalia, plus a fourth - Johann Christian Ferdinand - as children of Johann Friedrich Ferdinand Fischer, shoemaker's apprentice, married to Johanna Christiane Kloppe.
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The Compgen.de information is consistent with the civil records. Here is the previously unknown first child's 1819 civil record. Although I cannot fully read the remarks the mother's maiden name is Kloppe. House no 1375.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9WM-MXW?i=98&cc=2040001&cat=638260
Moving to America sometimes provided an opportunity to significantly improve the family financial status and often the family would "improve" their history to match the new status. I suspect that maybe the Carlo Fischer biography may have been embellished. Usually the "Who's Who" books contain the names and self-written biographies of anyone willing to pay to have their biography included. So they are only as accurate as the payor wants them to be. No one verifies the information.
Edit to add: The mother (Maria Christiana Kloppe in this record) was previously married to a Christian Samuel Keitel which explains the remarks in the first childs civil birth record.
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/14953206
Christian Samuel Keitel and Maria Christiana Kloppe had two children but must have divorced. He married for a third time in 1818.
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More on Carlo Fischer, on Ancestry, but extracted from History of Minneapolis, Gateway to the Northwest -
Also about Carlo in Minneapolis - https://hclib.tumblr.com/post/188956442296/the-sheet-music-of-cellist-carlo-fischer
Nice info, but nothing so far revealing grandparents names...
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Hi,
I've been following this search with interest - and with admiration and awe about all the info that is coming together here!!
Here a question concerning the link from compgen.de that you posted. I thought that @Steve Hardin is looking for the name of Franz Emil Fischer's parents? Would it not be certain that Johann Friedrich Ferdinand Fischer must be the father since they are mentioned on that same card?
Regards, Christine
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Yes, according to the Leipzig records that we've found so far, Johann Friedrich Ferdinand Fischer is the father of both Franz Emil and David Anton. Now we're trying to locate the father of Johann Friedrich Ferdinand. And in a biography of Carlo Fischer - Anton's son - it mentions that that his - Carlo's - grandfather is a man named Adolph G. [presumably Fischer]. This Adolph would then be the father of both Anton and Emil, but so far we haven't been able to verify this - or any other parent for these two.
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This is great. @JohnsonGreg and @sylviaelchinger1 you are super sleuths. Like @hehesani63 stated, "with admiration and awe" I am trying to keep up with you.
You all have certainly brought a new energy to this process.
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Got another little tidbit - death date for Johann Friedrich Ferdinand's wife in Leipzig -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS59-N987-H?i=306&cat=594407
Image 307 of 663, page FI 49 in the burial register lists JFF as a Schuhmachergeselle - shoemaker apprentice . Also lists his wife Maria Christiane nee Kloppe, who died at age of 58 1/2 years. Then there's two dates - 4, 10 Feb 1853. Then I think the last two columns are the cemetery where she's buried and the lot number.
If you look at the other entries on the page, it appears that these are family entries, and the person listed in the left-most column is the head of household, then everyone else who died in that household is listed in the next column.
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Not sure what the 4 in the third column above means, because according to this record, Maria Christiane died on the 8th of February. What's nice is that this record confirms the house address that was listed in the children's birth records - 1375 Friedrichsstrasse.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS59-GSHN-9?i=156&cat=594407
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Here's an excerpt from the Leipzig Einwohner-Register that says JFF was born in 1794 in Leipzig. Maybe someone can help decipher what's written in the column with Schumachergeselle, which is crossed out.
Found here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS55-M44P?i=554&cat=607208 image 555
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A couple more records for Maria Christiane Kloppe's parents.
Death of Maria Christiane Kloppe's father Johann Gottlob Kloppe Death: 30 Oct 1823; Funeral 2 Nov 1823, age 63 so born 1760:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSLR-1BCS?i=189&cat=594407
Death of her mother Dorothea Charlotte Kloppe nee Schmidt. No 93 on right side, 20 Sep 1814, age 46 1/2 so born 1768:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSLR-19ZZ-F?i=84&cat=594407
Dorothea Charlotta Kloppe nee Schmidt was from Halle:
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Still on the trail of JFF and family. The Fischer image I posted above was from the Einwohner-Register for 1814-1831. There's a following set of entries for 1832-1854. and in this version, JFF has an entry, and everyone in the family has their own entry as well. See
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSLT-SS18-Q?i=639&cat=607208
Images 640 and 641 list each family member, starting near the bottom of 640. Here it notes Maria Christiane's death, but also gives a full birth date for JFF - 2.8.1793, but changes his birth place to "Strassenhäuser bei Volkmarsdorf." His occupation is now "shoe mender."
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Information about Strassenhäuser bei Volkmarsdorf, 3 km east of of the center of Leipzig
https://www.leipzig-lexikon.de/GEMEINDE/vd_strh.htm
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkmarsdorf
In this map below of Leipzig from Meyers you can see Volkmardorf just above the word "Anger" and Reudnitz just below. (Reudnitz was listed on the index card for where Johann Friedrich Ferdinand was from). Strassenhäuser is abbreviated on the map just west and below Reudnitz.
link to meyers where it is a sharper image, you can zoom in on the map and also toggle to a current street map:
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OK, and here is where it comes full circle - check out this entry for JFF from the 1855-18 Einwohner register - image 882 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS55-C9H8?i=881&cat=607208
shows father and his three children leaving for Baltimore, and says that JFF died in Baltimore 8 June 1861! I've already checked Chronicling America for newspapers around that date, but was unable to find any digitized images. <sigh> But it looks like he applied for a passport to take the trip to Baltimore, so maybe that application can be dug up somewhere.
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@Steve Hardin , I did find Franz Emil Fisher and David Anton Fisher living in the same house in 1860 in Baltimore just as David Anton's obituary said. David Anton's wife Bertha and daughter Emma are also listed. It is very very faint and hard to read. The indexer read their names as Emanuel and Antonio so it was hard to find. I went ahead and attached it to their familysearch IDs. I couldn't find their father but he should be nearby - maybe with his daughter who I also cannot find yet.
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It appears we are at an impasse. I appreciate all your efforts toward discovering a solution to this ancestral conundrum, and in doing so, discovering an additional generation of family. I thank you. Perhaps the only action remaining is through DNA.
If anyone can help further please do. And a special thank you to @JohnsonGreg and @sylviaelchinger1
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