Researching WELSH Ancestors? Then You NEED THIS!!
Commenti
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This was extremely interesting. I am new here, and trying to collect information on my great grandfather, Rowland C. Williams (1852-1937) who was born in Wales, emigrated to the United States sometime in the 1880s and red in 1937, and my great grandmother, Sarah Jones Williams (1857-1898) who also was born in Wales and came to the US. I don't know much more, although part of my DNA profile puts my Welsh ancestors in the areas of Gwynedd and Anglesey. And I have a birth record for Rowland which lists "Anglesey" as a birth place. Hopefully I will be able to find out more.
Jeffery Hanson
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@jefferyhanson do you know where in Wales they were born? @Cedar Kedar might be able to help you if you have that information.
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I am not sure. I think my great grandfather was born in Angelesy, according to the attached birth record for Rowland Williams. For some reason I am not able to contact @Cedar Kedar
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@jefferyhanson apparently Angelesy was one of the first counties in Wales for that area.
Do you have any information on his parents? Do you have a record of them coming to America? This would be helpful in seeing what else we can find on Rowland or his family
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Wales_Emigration_and_Immigration
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Not so far. They would have come through Ellis Island In New York. I've looked through their online records and have found several Williams that came from Wales. Still looking there...
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I found two leads but don't have access to the records
1871 Wales census and voters lists : Rowland Williams,
1873- Wales birth, marriage and death: Rowland Williams- Bangor, Angelesy
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Hi Jeffery,
I have contacted @Cedar Kedar to see if she can get access to these records there in Wales. She has had some computer issues, but she thinks she has them fixed and so she should respond as soon as she can.
I have located a Rowland Williams on FindMyPast, but I need more information from you. Do you know where he was born, parents if you have them. 1873 Wales birth, marriage and death you put Bangor, Angelesy after Williams are those names or places? Can you give me a bit more information as it will be helpful.
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I found some more info an Ancestry.com I have an 1871 Wales Census that shows a Rowland Williams (19 years old, which matches his birth in 1852) living in a house with two other "William's' (Brothers I think) and several other people. They are all listed as "servants" and are all single. they are living in the parish of "Llanddyfnan, Angelsesy. All of them are listed as being born there. I have uploaded this document. I also have a marriage record listing from 1873 that lists a Rowland Williams. But the record is incomplete. It does list his district as Bangor, and the volume and page numbers as 11b and 930. I have also uploaded this document. I so much appreciate your effort on my behalf.
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Hello Jeffery,
I found the following records, but I am not sure it is your Rowland. I can't believe how popular his name is. This might help you. There are two marriage records, one in Bangor, Flintshire, Wales and the other is for Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales. A few more clues, hopefully to help you.
Kind Regards,
Shannon
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Hi Shannon,
Thanks so much for posting these records. The Angelesy Baptism record seems spot on. It matches the name, year of birth, and the town (Llandayfnan). If so, his parents were William and Ellen. That's a breakthrough. Not sure about the marriage records. His wife was named Sarah Ann Jones. It's possible he had a wife previous to her. He was 19 when he was a servant in the census record, and the Banger marriage record also has him at age 19 and married to either Margaret Bonner or Ann Roberts. According to his obituary from 1937, he married Sarah Jones after coming to the US, but that could be an error. His obit also says he was from Holyhead, which now seems unlikely...unless we have the wrong Rowland Williams. The detective-work continues.
Enjoy your day,
Jeffery
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Jeffery,
I am glad that I could help you and I hope it is indeed the correct record.
Kind Regards,
Shannon
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Thank you!!
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Here are a few thoughts I came up with on your search for Rowland Williams:
Rowland's death certificate shows birthdate of 1 March 1852. A second source for birth date is the 1900 census (also shows March, 1852).
If you search civil birth registrations on the General Register Office (GRO) website for all Rowland Williams', there is only one born in the March quarter. His mother's maiden name is Harris.
There is a marriage record in Anglesey (search Ancestry) for a William Williams and Ellinor Harris in 1841, and Ellinor's father is Rowland Harris. Could this be the William Williams and Ellen found on the baptism record in Llanddyfnan. The problem is that the date of the baptism was 4 January 1852, before the date of his birth, if it is actually March 1st.
So, there you go. More head scratching.
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@jefferyhanson Sorry, my images didn't come through but I think the verbage tells you what was on them!
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Thanks so much for your reply and information. I have uploaded my great grandfather's obituary. When he died he was living with my grandmother. The information contained in the obit had to have come from either her or her brother Arthur. Their other sister Phoebe died in 1918, and their mother (Sarah) died in 1898. I have to think the info on the obit is accurate, that he was born in Holyhead (where he went from there seems to be the question), on March 1st, 1852. I have also uploaded a Holyhead census from 1861, with a 9 year old Rowland and his father Owen, mother Lettice, and sister's Margaret and Elinor.
More fuel for the mystery, I guess.
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@jefferyhanson I was not able to see the obit but will take you word that it says Rowland was born 1 March 1852 in Holyhead. I hope you were able to view the civil birth registration list of all the Rowland Williams' born in 1852 (see my last post). I can identify (with certainty) the parents for each of the ones born in Anglesey.
- The one born in March quarter is the son of William Williams and Eleanor/Ellen Harris and was born in Llanddyfnan (not close to Holyhead). He was born in January, by the baptismal date. The place of residence (a tenement called "Bryn Brochan") matched on the marriage record, baptism record, and censuses.
- The one born in June quarter is the son of Owen Williams and Lettice Hughes. If information on census is correct, he was born in Trefdraeth (not close to Holyhead). I could not find a baptism record for him but again, if census is correct the family moved to Holyhead when he was very young and he could have easily believed he was born there.
- The one born in September quarter is the son of Rowland Williams and Margaret Williams and was born in Penrhos Lligwy (not close to Holyhead). He was baptized there in October, 1852.
I use FindMyPast to view actual images of parish records. Sometimes you just get indexed records on FamilySearch. If you have access to FindMyPast, go to the A-Z list and search for Anglesey. Then you can choose Baptisms, Marriages, or Burials and restrict the results to a single parish.
Registering births in Wales has been mandatory since 1837, so your Rowland should be there. If I had to vote, I think I would go with #2, but you won't know for sure without finding additional records. I doubt that a ship manifest would be helpful since before 1892 there was not good identifying information unless you know who he traveled with. The 1900 census indicates he was naturalized and naturalization records should provide birth information.
Another favorite source I use is Welsh newspapers on the National Library of Wales website. Use place names along with family names. Sometimes you get lucky and it tells of someone leaving to go to America.
Wish you well and let us know if you make any progress!
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@jefferyhanson Have you had an opportunity to explore the Welsh newspapers? If not, here is the link and a tip: Try searching for "Rowland Williams" in quotes, then from those search results put in the word Chicago. Many of the newspapers are in Welsh but luckily this website has a text transcription on the right hand side. Do a page search (F3) for the word Rowland to find the article, then copy and paste into Google Translate
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Thanks so much! I'll check it out.
Jeffery
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YAY!! Great lead! So far I have found Sarah (Jones) Williams (Rowland's wife) obituary in one of the newspapers. She died of tuberculosis, March 25th, 1898, in Chicago. The article mentions my grandmother and two siblings as survivors. She came to this country with her Father, William Jones in 1872 from Cardiff and settled in Rome, New York before moving to Chicago in 1879. His wife died in 1892.
You're awesome, thanks so much!!
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@jefferyhanson Did you find the article in Y Drych dated 7th May 1885 about the deaths of Rowland's children? Also, information on the 1880 census in Chicago leads me to further believe that Owen Williams is the correct father of Rowland. What do you think?
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Hi,
Yes I just found the article. It adds what was unknown, that Rowland and Sarah had two children before my grandmother was born, which was December 17th, 1885. This means Sarah was probably pregnant with my grandmother when the two died. It appears they died in Wales. Were the children living in Wales? if so with whom? Interesting!
I haven't seen the census to which you refer. I did find an 1880 Chicago census with an R. Williams (age 30) from Wales living in Michigan Avenue. I don't think that's the one you're referring to.
thanks for the info.
Jeff
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The name Rowland is indexed wrong so try searching for Sarah Williams. In the same household are her parents, W D Jones and wife Elizabeth.
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Thanks for the info. I cannot find this. What year was this? I did find a death record for William. He died January 26th, 1900. I think he was living in the same house as Rowland, on Wabash Avenue. I'll keep looking. My main resource for census info is FamilySearch.
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In FamilySearch, search for "Russlin Williams" in Illinois. It should be the top one in the results--1880 census.
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Found it. Russlin, though. Everything else fits. He had a 0ne year old son, William, wife Sarah A. and parents in law William D. Jones and Elizabeth Jones. Was Russlin some sort of nickname? Or a misspelling?
I found a newspaper article from December 31st, 1901 in which Owen R. Williams of 4717 Wabash Avenue (Rowland lived at 4711), went back to Wales for the "Mythnos of the holidays" to the place of his birth, Llanfachraeth. The is the same Owen R. Williams that was singing at memorials and other religious events in Chicago and elsewhere. I think your opinion that Owen is Rowland's father is correct.
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"Russlin" is just how it was indexed due to poor handwriting by the census taker. My guess is that Rowland and Sarah named their first born son William Owen (just O. on the census) after both of their fathers.
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Yes, that's it. As you suggest, William Owen was probably named after their fathers. I believe he is one of two who died in 1885, as per the newspaper article I found. It appears that Rowland experienced a good many tragedies, the death of two young children, the death of his wife at a fairly young age (41), the death of William three years after her death, and the death of a daughter, Phoebe at a young age of 25 in 1918. Very sad.
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Yes. Here is the passenger list of Rowland and Sarah returning from Wales without their children. What a sad trip that would be.
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What a great find! Yes that must have been a very sad trip, and more sadness when they got home to tell the grandparents.
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