Nicholas Bertamus FamilySearch Request
Risposte
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Thanks so much for the tips and document. I am saving these clues and tips, as you are correct. There are many sources.
I may post the document in my "French" community to get translated"
I have not yet received my approval to deltgen.com. Looking forward to being able to explore there.
Joan
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If you use Deltgen, be patient if you click in familycard, it takes some time to load.
There are two other possible paths Eva could have followed, as it is possible that she was alive at the
outbreak of WW1 and fled the country. many people did, or died in the dustcloud of the war.
Or possibly she Took the name of a husband,and stays elusive because of that.But i still think she simply
relocated in Luxembourg,and died in a town we are not aware of.I did not find her in Belgium , btw.
Yes, please , have it translated!-now i'm off , fishing!
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Thanks again for the tips. I see that the BERTEMES, Guillaume record has 2 pages of images.
I will ask for both to be translated.
Thanks again.
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Joan, can you inform me how old both Eva and Nick were at the death of both mother and father, in 1871 and 1874?, i did not store and i'm a bit in a hurry.I am not very convinced that they were taken under the wings of a custodian or a relative.Poor people in those days started working from very young ages-, sometimes only for food and a roof above their head.Still , Nikolas managed to save or get money for the transit towards the new world.would be interesting to know the vessel and the route, and port of departure.
The museum in Belgium that probably has the uniform (if European) does not display all of their collections basically about 400 are on stage.They do not give or provide info over the web.I have visited it in the past, and should have done that also 1 yr ago, altough corona trashed my plans, maybe i will next summer.It is not difficult for me to go there.
You can navigate, on that page to personal military files(what is availiable) and enter Bertemes-but i already did, there was no gain.It is a check that is mostly overlooked.Belgium has a province called Luxemburg, and Luxemburg was sometimes part of Belgium/ Netherlands.All as an aside.
https://www.klm-mra.be/D7t/en/content/uniforms-and-other-military-textiles
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This is what I have based on the records provided thus far:
Eva - born on 21 May 1866, Weiswampach, Weiswampach, Clerf, Diekirch, Luxembourg
Heinrich - born on 23 Aug 1867 (I do not have a place)
Nicolas - born on 10 Nov 1869, Ulflingen, Niederbesslingen, Clervaux, Diekirch, Luxembourg
He would have been about 2 when is mother died in 1871, and 5 when is father died in 1874
Elizabetha - born on 13 Jul 1871, Troisvierges, Clervaux, Diekirch, Luxembourg
Thank you again for continuing with my search.
I think he arrived in the U.S. around 1891-1892. He was married in Iowa to Margaret Schwebach (another Luxembourg family) on 29 Sep 1896. I saw a
I believe that he became a U.S. citizen on 21 Oct 1896, in O'Brien County, Iowa.
I have not been able to locate him yet on a passenger list, but did see a reference to a ship called La Gascogne. Most depatures for this ship show La Havre, France.
This is another reference I found in my research and I have tried reseaching the source to see if I may purchase a copy. I have not yet purchased.
Name: Nic Bertemes
Arrival Year: 1891-1892
Arrival Place: Iowa
Primary Immigrant: Bertemes, Nic
Source Publication: Code2699.1
Annotation: Date and port of arrival, date of emigration with intended destination, or date and place of first mention of residence in the New World. Published with a complete index, a biography, and a bibliography of Nicholas Gonner. Original translations by Gerald
Source: Bibliography GONNER, NICHOLAS. Luxembourgers in the New World. Volume one. [A re-edition based on the work of Nicholas Gonner, Die Luxemburger in der Neuen Welt, Dubuque, IA: n.p., 1889.] Edited by Jean Ensch, Jean-Claude Muller, and Robert E. Owen. Esch-sur-Alzette, Luxembourg: Editions-Relieures Schortgen, 1987. 393p.
Household members Name: Nic Bertemes
Thanks so much.
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Heinrich, Henri; is born at Troisvierges, Clervaux- is also in Deltgen.
La Gascogne is probably La Gascoigne probably Le Havre , indeed.
You could try to find a pdf free version of the volume" Luxemburgers in the new world..etc"
Elisabetha died 8 days after the mother,on 21 of July 1871
Deltgen will solve some voids.
Maybe this evening i will give it another shot
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Ok - thanks. I was just granted access to Deltgen. So my searches begin now too.
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There is another goodie in it, left it to be found by you.
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BTW,
This is what came back from my request to translate the Bertemes, Guillaume documents.
"The two documents relate to the military service records of Doctor Bertemès Guillaume who was mobilized during the First World War from August 2, 1914 (date of general mobilization) to November 11, 1918 (date of armistice).
There is nothing interesting from a genealogical point of view (on his various military affections) except the upper part of the document which concerns his marital status and his physical description.
Finally you will find his marriage certificate in the Departmental Archives of Meurthe-et-Moselle (n ° 701 transcribed on October 14, 1900 in Nancy)"
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Yes, i agree with some of this, altough;- place of birth is rather interesting, as well as the fact that he was uniformed ,and belonged to the officers.I would suggest to cast him aside for now, but not lightly,keep him in a box for later possible purposes.He could be related.
I found only Two passenger lists on Gg archives for the ship La Gascogne; was a mistake on my side to read it as Gascoigne(that's how we would read it in Belgium, folks)..some pun intended.But back to the case,it seems to be so that The Gascogne made 228 transatlantic voyages from Le Havre to New York,and they are all registered, and the digitalised manifest along with them, i checked, all names are there, so we either have to check each and every one of them visually, or need a more or less pinpoint accuracy to frame the years of transition possible for Nikolas.
I will show the list and manifests after the weekend, i have to do some other mandatory things.
Adrie
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Adrie,
Because of this article in the Alton Democrat newspaper, Page5, Aug. 02,1890, Post Office notice for Granville, IA. Letters were waiting for him on July 31, 1890, so I am thinking of 1890 as his immigration.
Also, I think that to become a U.S. citizen, he would need to be in the U.S. for at least 5 years.
I believe he was naturalized 21 Oct 1896. I saw this referenced somewhere.
And, FYI, I have been able to provide Deltgen.com with some death dates for my relatives in their database.
Helping where I can as well.
Have a great weekend.
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Joan, if he arrived at New York's port after 1890, he should be and would be in their database ,and he is not , apparently, i checked it.Before Ellis island was used to funnel the immigrants, Castle Garden was the point of entry for arrivals before 1890, so if he immigrated before that date , he should and would be in their database...But he is not,altough 3 Persons are named Bertemes,and at least one of them,could be a possible relative and be in the Deltgen file at the same time.Could you check this 3 out altogether, i believe Jean is an opportunity.All the above however,could indicate that he entered America, not via Castle Garden, or Ellis , but via another way of easy entry , like say prospecting around the great lakes and entering via Canada.
We also should consider, that Antwerp would be a better opportunity for him to leave Europe than Le havre is , or Hamburg.I do not think he traveled on the La Gascogne,as the Nic Bertemes that did , was registered at 1908 as immigrating/disembarking the Gascogne and is on a manifest.This all contradicts a later than 1890 arrival.Must be sooner , perhaps as far as 1870 as you suggest.
Adrie
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Thanks.
I made 1 typo in my message. I believe his arrival would be close to 1890-1891. I am not sure Jean is correct, but am researching further.
I found these 2 records in another ancestor site (myhertiage):
Name: Nic Bertemes
Arrival: 1891 - Iowa
Document type Immigrant Record
Accession #: 9999766840
Gale Id: 607952
Source publication code : 2699.1
Source: Passenger and Immigration Lists Index
No image was available and I think there may be a record in another publication. I will conact the Gale Library in Minnesota to see if they have it.
Name: Nicolas Bertenes
Gender: Male
Birth: Circa 1870, Belgium
Arrival: 1890: New York, New York, United States
Ship: *a Gascogne (I think should be La Gascogne)
Age: 20
Nationality: Belgium
Line: 57
Image attached
Thanks again for your finds.
Joan
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Awsome,! Found a military draft index on Famsearch, Image 1162 of 1246 line 17, date is in another frame, image 1155. date should be 1904
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The scan itself does not have an arrival year,and Belgium is possible as Bertemes is not uncommon here, also the birtdate is missing.(and i do not see , (La Gascogne)
The reason i do mention it , is that some days ago, i found a Nickolas Bertemes on a (1908)! manifest, born in Niederbesslingen,apparently another Nick, also occupation farmer.Unfortunately i did not store the link , as at that moment , my grandson was jumping up and down my lap,..7 months old!
Anyway, i will try to hoover up the La Gascogne manifest 1890
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This link contains a very big stack of La Gascogne arrivals from Le Havre/Liverpool/New York it seems that 92 is missing,1890 is there,some months incomplete.Keep considering , Joan,that this wallet may not contain all arrivals or possible routes done by the Gascogne.
I also requested a login to the Luxemburg library; as they seem to allow neighboring regions to have acces to online content.They have the book of your intrest. Wait and see...
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I don't know how you find these resources.
But, I found the record in the image I sent.
Date of Arrival March 17, 1890
Series M237
Roll 544
Frame 560
Specific record for Nicolas Bertenes
Series 237
Roll 544
Frame 571
You are awesome.
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Good.
It confirms that he traveled with the La Gascogne via Le Havre/Liverpool to New York on 17 the of March 1890.Altough the country of origin specifies Belgium,it could be so that Luxemburg was part of Belgium-The Netherlands on that moment; good check for tomorrow.
Better to bookmark that link, has nearly all big ocean liners on the rolls.
Gg archives is also in the posession of some of the Gascogne manifests, but not the one you were looking for.
Sorry for the typos sometimes.
Adrie
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I am saving all links, as they are very good to have.
No need to apologize for typos. I do it too.
BTW - sometimes in the US Census records, they list German as birthplace.
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The surprise at Deltgen,that i left aside to find for you is maybe difficult to find.
=> Kremer Marie Catherine born 16 sept,1840 Biwisch, Clervaux. (at search prompt), nr 19 on the drop down list ( there are several) she is the woman Michel remarried with after Metzen died, and the marriage-date is in 1873 the year before Michel died ....(in 1874), so he did not die a widower; leaving behind a custodian for the children.So she is your candidate........
We also have proof.If the above =true, she should be on Michel's rap sheet.
=>nr 198 list at (search prompt Michel Bertemes)-she show up in the lowest line as 'Gezin2' family two!
Adrie
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Thank you. I was wondering, as you mentioned there was a surprise. I have been able to see them connected on Deltgen, and in FamilySearch, I did see mention of Michel Bertemes and Catharina Kremer in the marriage record of their daughter Barbara Bertemes (born 2 May 1874).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G97J-HWP5?i=592&cc=1709358
Barbara married Mathias Compinato on 26 Oct 1898.
I am glad to see Nicolas and his siblings were taken care of by Marie Catherine.
Question - is Marie added to the first name for females in Luxumbourg records?
Joan
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So, Barbara is born in the year Michel died,...puzzling.
Found the marriage record, with the correct father and mother for Michel ,as well as Maria Metzen is mentioned as previous wife
and the new wife, however , i think that Marie Catherine is not very correct, 'Marie' maybe,.. but Catherine?.. doubtful and very difficult to read; really something for the German room/Needs native speakers.
anyway see for yourself.date, 22 feb 1873, Asselborn left side /whole page.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MCS-2TW?i=187&cc=1709358&cat=64407
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pay attention to her signature.
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Thanks. I will send for translation. Yes, based on dates, it looks like Michel died one month before Barbara was born.
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Hi Adrie,
I got the document translated. Below is the translation.
Thank you for your help.
Eva (Eve) is still the elusive one.
Joan
Translation
On 22 February 1873, 6 p.m. appeared before us, Victor Simonis, mayor and civil registrar of the community Asselborn, district of Klerf in the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg, Michel Bertemes, railway official, 36 years old, born at Ulflingen read Asselborn on 20 January 1837, residing at Ulflingen, son of legal age of Johann Bertemes, deceased at Asselborn on 22 January 1840 and of Gertrud Heinen, deceased at Weiswampach on 31 March 1852, widower from the first marriage with Maria Metzen, deceased at Ulflingen on 19 July 1871. The parties and witnesses have declared that also the grandparents are deceased, with unknown date and place. The certificate lit.L.L. can be found with the certificate of the first marriage, which has been enacted at Weiswampach, the other certificates are enclosed.
and Maria Katharina Kremer, without occupation, 32 years old, born at Bivisch in this community on 16 September 1840, residing at said Bivisch, daughter of legal age of Nikolaus Kremer, slate roofer, 76 years old, who is present and has agreed to the marriage of his daughter, and of Anna Maria Holler, deceased at Bivisch on 26 December 1869, as can be seen from the death certificates of this community.
Who have asked us to proceed with the marriage they have agreed to and for which the proclamations have be made on the Sundays, the 9th and 16th of the present month February in our community and in Niederbesslingen.
Since no objection to the proposed marriage has been announced to us, we grant their request; and after having read aloud all the above-mentioned acts and the 6th chapter of the Civil Code, entitled On Marriage, we asked the groom and the bride if they wanted to take each other as man and wife; since both responded each for himself and affirmatively, so we declare in the name of the law that Michel Bertemes and Maria Katharina Kremer are united by marriage.
About all this we have drawn up this document, in the presence of Johann Nikolaus Laplume, farmer, 40 years old, residing at Asselborn, not related; of Nikolaus Wilwertz, miller, 42 years old, residing at Trotten, cmmunity of Boegen, not related; of Michel Peters, primary teacher, 29 years, residing at Asselborn, not related; and of Michel Jacoby, farrier, 40 years old, residing at Asselborn, not related,
who, after it had been read aloud to them have undersigned this document together with us.
<signatures>
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Nice,Only one remark for future queries; Bivish is known today as Biwisch.I still hope to find Eva,strange that she is avoiding detection.If she is given up for adoption she would be anonymised.
I sent a message yesterday,or i tought i did.I have a German e-version of luxembourgers in der neue welt, do you like to have it?
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Sorry I missed your last message.
yes, anything you have would be great.
I think Eva would have been about 7 years old when her Dad remarried. Would it have been a possibility that she, and Heinrich and Nicolas would be given up for adoption?
Especially since she had a newborn too.
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Yes, certainly this could be the case, altough as only Eva is elusive, possibly only one was given out for adoption;boys were usually kept, even youngsters , as they could work from a very young age onwards.
You really would be surprised to know how young sometimes.but honestly these are all assumptions and hypothesis-as long as they do not gain results.I will send the links for the first version of Luxemb..., much later on the day, it is still very early here,6 am, and i'm awake from 4.30 onw,to go fishing.
Adrie
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Dropped some lines in your message box,about the e-books.
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