Norwegian Birth Parents
I have an ancestor (Hans Syversson KJ49-15K) that I am looking to verify his birth parents.
His spouse is Mari Erlandsdotter (KJ4S-MSC).
Their daughter, my ggrandmother, is Sigrid Hansdotter (K2XK-XH5).
Commentaires
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At first glance, you have a significant problem. In the early 1800s, the father of Hans Syversson would never be Hans Syversson. His father would have to be Syver something.
Also, as I first started to poke around in this, I have a style suggestion for you that might make it easier to work with this record. It looks like Hans has a lot more sources need to be there which just makes it difficult to analyze them while adding no additional value. From a first glance, it looks there are many triplicates in which a FamilySearch system source is attached directly, the same source is added as a custom made source, and the same source is added as an Ancestry source. Only the system source is needed.
For example, the Ancestry database "Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927" is just a copy of FamilySearch's database of the same name and the Ancestry database "Norway, Church Records, 1812-1938" is just Ancestry's copy of the same database on FamilySearch. Ancestry, My Heritage, and FamilySearch worked together to create that database and each have a copy on their sites with the same information. You'll have a much clearer and cleaner source page if you detach those Ancestry and custom sources that are just duplicates of the FamilySearch copy of the identical information.
It's also really hard to evaluate the custom sources because none of them have dates and so don't sort properly.
One thing I don't see is any source directly to the microfilm images at the Norwegian archives. These are pretty handy to have because the image view at Digitalarkivet is much better than FamilySearch's viewer and because the images are not always available on FamilySearch.
But I'll get back to looking at Han's parents.
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I generally find it most useful to start with the latest information on a person then work backwards so I first looked at Hans' death information that is on his record and found a couple of things to mention. First the birth year discrepancy of 1811 vs 1816 is a bit concerning unless you have a good explanation for it or have other evidence that this is the right Hans. Five years off is really not that much of an error.
Also, the index for the death record has a major error. The index says he died at Fossbergum when the actual image says nothing of the sort. The actual record says he died at, I think, Kallatrædet. Also, you can see in the left hand margin that the funeral was held at Lom Kirke, signified by the L there. So his death information should be entered as Death: 6 January 1875, Kallatrædet, Lom, Oppland, Norway; Burial 23 January 1875, Lom Kirke, Lom, Oppland, Norway. If you can determine which farm Kallatrædet was on you can put that between Kallatrædet and Lom.
A lot of place names for Norway are missing from the Places database but it is still very important to include the full place name. So we often have to enter the full name then link it to a less complete standard like this:
On a side note, somehow the image of Han's death record has been attached to his Family Tree profile five times:
It would really help his source page to detach four of those.
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One more thing on sources, there is an 1875 census source attached to him that cannot be for him if he died in January 1875 because the census was done 31 December 1875. Also that census has him at the wrong place with the wrong wife.
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There is also a 1975 census source from Ancestry for Mari Erlandsdatter which is incorrect and needs to be detached. Her actual 1875 census entry is here: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052088001622
where she is living at Koldetræet with her two youngest children. From that census, you can see that Hans' full death place would be Koldetræet, Søndre Kolden, Lom, Oppland, Norway.
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Checking more census records, I see a source for Hans in the 1875 Minnesota census. That is definitely not for him and needs to be removed. I see that there have been a number of merges for Hans. Could one of them be incorrect and brought in that census source?
Anyway, the 1865 Norwegian census for Hans is not attached to his profile. It is here: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038058000754
where he with his wife and five children are living at Koldetrædet. Pick you spelling of choice. They are all equivalent Kallatræte, Koldetræet, Koldetrædet. In this census he is listed as 56 so born about 1810 which does match his death record nicely. But nobody really knew how old they were at that time in history so his age could be off five years easily.
Looking at his Residences under other information, I see an entry for Holden. I am not going to dig through all sources to see where that came from, but I highly suspect that is a mistranscription of Kolden which would be a shortened form of Søndre Kolden.
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Back one mores step would be Hans' marriage record and I agree that that 10 June 1841 wedding is his. Here are the two records for it: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8916/12 and https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8914/191.
He is 33 years old, giving an estimated birth year of 1808 which is pretty consistent with the census and death records.
In the Ministerialbok copy of the marriage record, his father is clearly listed as Syver Erlandsson.
Note that the Klokkerbok does not list parents at all. That man in the forth column, Hans Ullemoen, is the witness. Most likely he is Hans's employer since Hans was living and therefor certain to be working at the Ullemoen farm at the time of the wedding.
So Hans is clearly currently listed with the wrong parents. Again I have to wonder if some incorrect merges led to this problem. It's kind of strange that his current, likely incorrect mother, Toro does not show up anywhere in his change log.
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Now it's back to birth information. Someone has added a birth date of 25 December 1816 for him, but that birth record is for Hans Syversson the son of Syver Torstensson. So that is not him.
Doing some initial searches for Han's actual birth records is not turning up anything right off the bat. So I did a general search for Sy* Erl* in Lom between 1800 and 1820 ( https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/persons/advanced?no_alias=1&from=&to=&m%5B%5D=0514&firstname=sy*&lastname=er*&birth_year_from=&birth_year_to=&birth_date=&birth_place=&domicile=&position=&event_year_from=1800&event_year_to=1820&event_date=&related_first_name=&related_last_name=&related_birth_year=&sort=rel) and found there were only two Syver Erlandssson in the 1801 census for Lom. Both were married. One's wife was 50 years old so that could not be Hans' parents. But the other, living at Enersvold, has a wife named Rønnaug who is just 32 and so could have a child around 1810. It is also intriguing that Hans has a daughter named Rønnaug since traditional naming practices would demand that Hans name one of his daughters after his mother. The census record is here: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058251000826
But we still need a birth record. That is being stubborn.
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I checked My Heritage and there are several trees that look like they are trying to be for Hans Syversson but at first glance they all look to have serious problems with his information and his parents. None show the father that his marriage record does and several have that incorrect Dec. 1816 birth date.
It is looking like this is a difficult problem. If his birth didn't get recorded for some reason this will really be hard.
I see that another user mentioned the Lom Bygdebok. Maybe you can message her and see what she found there. In the meantime I'll keep looking.
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Thanks for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You refer to many sources I do not know how to get to.
I am just an average amateur.
Dennis0 -
We're all amateurs here! I hope the links I'm including give you the chance to get to some of these sources. Just take your time and you'll figure things out. I wasn't familiar with much of this either when my wife who is from Norway and I first started working on her family shortly after we got married.
If I haven't explained something clearly enough, let me know and ask questions. I generally get concerned that I am over explaining.
I'm still trying to find a birth record for Hans Syversson for you but he continue to be a problem. I've spent the afternoon working on the family of Syver Erlandsson and Rønnoug Eriksdatter that I mentioned above and have about convinced myself that they could not his parents either. Their other children have been easy to find. So that 1801 census is not for his family before he was born. This is when I really get annoyed that there were no national censuses between 1801 and 1865.
(OK, we got married in 1988 so I have been working in Norwegian records for a while.)
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I have had 2 people recently who born illegimate
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One thing I did find that I have been staring at on and off that is potentially a wild goose chase is an entry in the confirmation records. In this time period, all Norwegian youth had to go through confirmation at about age 14 to 18. In fact, you couldn't get married if you didn't.
I checked for Lom and the records for when Hans would have been confirmed have fairly good information. Started with an assumed earliest birth date and working forward, I found this in 1822: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603510230
Line 26 (the second one) has Hans Syversen living (not born) at Hestehagen. The second column lists "Parents names, Head of Household names, or foster parents names" which is unfortunate. Also, unfortunately, I'm really not sure what the name there is because I'm not sure if that first letter is a B or an R. If it is an R, the name could be Rannaug Hestehagen. Surnames of this sort were determined by the name of the farm you were living on at the time. The third column is either the person's birth date or christening date. For this Hans it is 24 June 1808 and has the notation that he was born in G???? parish. If that is your Hans Syversson, it explains why there is no birth record. He was not born in Lom but rather in that other parish. I'll have to keep working on the parish name.
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The Norwegian Digital Archive has a very nice search system. So I decided to try something that is generally rather foolish. I put in the birth date of 24 June 1808 as the only search criteria to see what birth records popped up. Only 57 records were in the list of results. This is because most of the time birth records in the early 1800s only have christening and do not have any birth dates. I was expecting to have to try putting the date as a christening date. But there in that list of 57 records https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/persons/advanced?page=1&from=&to=&firstname=&lastname=&birth_year_from=1808&birth_year_to=1808&birth_date=06-24&birth_place=&domicile=&position=&event_year_from=&event_year_to=&event_date=&related_first_name=&related_last_name=&related_birth_year=
was a Hans born in Grytten prestegjeld in More og Romsdal. That difficult to read parish name in the confirmation record could easily be Grytten. And the parents in the record at https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000012528862 are Syver Erlandsson and Rønnoug Eriksdatter (spelling was quite flexible back then.
That is quite the coincidence. But I'm rather uncomfortable with the fact that the middle of Lom and the middle of Grytten are 110 miles apart. That is quite a bit further than most people would have moved at the time. But if anyone would move that far, it would be a family of tenant farmers, as this family was, looking for a better lot in life.
There is a death record for a Syver Erlandsson of the right age in 1810 in Lom so if this is the right family, they moved to Grytten after Ole was born in 1805 and before Syver died in 1810. I'm going to see if I can find a confirmation record for Ole Syversson born 1805 to Syver Erlandsson and Rønnoug Eriksdatter. If he is living at Hestehaugen, I think that would convince me I'm on the right track for you and not completely confusing things.
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I'm not done trying to work through the confirmation records, but will mention that one of the son's of a Syver Erlandsson and Rønnoug Eriksdatter who is nicely documented in the parish records is living in Ofoton in the 1865 census which is even farther from Lom than Grytten is. So the family did have a tradition of long moves. I'll finishing adding information to him tonight after work and point out this other family to you when I have its Family Tree profiles polished a bit more.
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Good news! I posted a plea for help on a couple of other boards and posted a picture of the confirmation record without any prompts of what I though the parish name was and one of the moderators in this group posted that he was sure it was Grytten. That means I am very confident now that based on everything else known about Hans Syversson and that confirmation record that has to be his, that his birth record really is: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000012528862 with the original record at: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070904620074
His birth information can be entered as:
Birth: 24 June 1808, Monsås, Grytten, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Christening: 26 June 1808, Eid Kirke, Grytten, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
with parents Syver Erlandsson (or Erlandsen depending on your personal preference. I like to use the Norwegian patronymic ending -son rather than the Danish version.) and Rønnoug Eriksdatter.
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I'm not finding much in the confirmation records, but they don't have much beyond name and age before about 1820. So I think I have enough for you at this point. There's a couple of things I'm going to check out with the 1801 census, but other than that, here are Hans' parents and his siblings. I'll let you do the needed merges: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/KHMF-V1X
This was a fun challenge. Let me know if you have any more questions. There is still plenty to do evaluating possible duplicates and there will probably be hints showing up.
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Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.
I could never have found all of this information without you until maybe the Millennium.
Dennis
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