My great grandmother Rosetta Balls married George Smith on 12th April 1884 in Putney, Surrey. Thei

Diane_Lott2

 I can only find a 1891 Census for a Rose and THOMAS Smith in Litherland, Lancashire. 1901 Census for Thomas and Rose Smith in Emma Road, West Ham, Essex. The GRO do not have a marriage certificate for Thomas Smith and Rosetta Balls. Did George Smith just change his name to Thomas Smith or are these different people?

k.dzado

There is a marriage for

Thomas Smith

18 May 1884 

Christ Church, Blackpool, Lancashire, England 

Rose Ann Shepherd 

So it is likely it is a different couple.

Paul W

Diane

 

I have just deleted a rather overlong response to your query, since - although I felt it contained useful detail - I realised it still did not answer your basic question of whether the "Thomas" found in 1891 & 1901 census records was the "George" who married Rosetta Balls in 1884. I will re-examine my comments (which I wrote and saved in Word) and try to give you a more concise opinion later on.

LegacyUser

Thank you.

LegacyUser

Thank you so much.

Paul W

Diane 

 

Sorry for the delay in my response – today has been really hectic! 

 

Much of what I have found is information you probably have already, including details of the children of THOMAS and Rosetta and their 1891 & 1901 census records. I also found a widowed Rosetta (Smith), still at West Ham, in the 1911 census. 

 

It does seem likely that "George" was the same person that is shown as “Thomas” in records after his 1884 marriage. As you have probably found, the banns record (image in FamilySearch) and civil registration index both show him as George. However, I would not place too much on this as giving  evidence this was his birth name. Obtaining a copy of the marriage entry would be helpful, though, as this would show whether he did actually sign as George, or just made his "mark / cross", so was possibly unaware of what had been recorded. 

 

I could not specifically identify his birth (as George or Thomas) from the details of age and birthplace shown in 1891 & 1901 census returns.  As you have seen, whilst both show him as Thomas, the ages do not quite match and his birthplace is shown as "Newbury, Buckinghamshire" in 1901 (should be Newbury, Berkshire) and as just "Berkshire" in 1891. Assuming he was born at Newbury in the 1850s, I have (just) found  three births of a THOMAS Smith - in 1853, 1855 & 1857. The one born in 1853 appears to have remained in the Newbury area, so I assume “your” Thomas  was born in 1855 or 1857. However, there were also a number of GEORGE Smith individuals born at Newbury during this period, too!

 

There are a number of other SMITH births (mother maiden name BALLS) recorded at both West Ham and Wandsworth from 1884 onwards, including Thomas Henry 1885, Maria 1887, Jonathan 1888 and Kate 1890 - all at Wandsworth. (see census records)

 

There are some differences in the details of the 1891 & 1901 census details. For example, "Rose" is shown with an Essex birth in 1891, whereas Stepney or nearby Bethnal Green in other censuses.   But, although the age of Thomas / George differs, a Berkshire birthplace is shown in both. Their children's names do not match, yet Thomas, Maria, "Lothan" (I think that should be Jonathan) and Kate are all children I had noted in my original post as being born to Smith / Balls at Wandsworth. The 1911 census really confirms that all three of the links provided do refer to the same family, in spite of there being some "unidentified children in some records - like the John born at Oxford!

 

The final point to note is that there were pre-1884 births in the Wandsworth Reg. Dist. area of children named SMITH with a mother named BALLS. However, I have been unable to identify a further, pre 1884 Smith / Balls marriage in Wandsworth (district) or Surrey (county).

 

NOTES:

 

The 1891 census transcription is found at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7Q7K-QT2

The 1901 record at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NX-XM1.

The 1911 census shows Rosetta still living in the West Ham area, but now widowed. The link for this is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWF3-BHW

 

Putney Banns record and civil registration both show GEORGE Smith & Rosetta Balls.

 

Other possible Smith / Balls marriages (from FreeREG):

 

William Thomas Smith m Caroline Balls West Ham Sep 1881

Frank Smith & Elizabeth Balls West Ham Dec 1883

(No Smith/Balls m in Surrey 1870-1883.)

 

 

Please send me a message if you want any clarification regarding the above or have any other query.

LegacyUser

Thank you very much for your reply. I do have the Marriage Certificate for George Smith dated 12th April 1884 in Putney. There are no "X"s but the writing is all the same. I had a zoom from a lady in Utah and she felt people did not travel very far in the 1800s so doubted George/Thomas were the same person.

 

However, on my grandmother's Marriage Certificate to John South on 17 November 1908 in West Ham is noted that her father was Thomas Smith (deceased). I have an Ancestry death entry for a Thomas Smith in the third quarter of 1904 (so he would have been deceased at the time of the marriage) and a newspaper report of a fatal accident in Plaistow of Thomas Smith.

 

George's father is shown as John Smith, a bricklayer, on the Marriage Certificate but I don't think he is going to be easy to find!

 

Thanks you so much for your help.