Would someone help translate this estate record of Sven Nilsson. This is for Margaret Ann Thompson.

Judith Clancy Dalebout

Would someone help translate this estate record of Sven Nilsson. This is for Margaret Ann Thompson. Arkiv Dig #v78445.b712.s1417 Thankyou

Liv Anderson2

I will translate for meaning: Year 1828 the 2 July was produced a Probate after the farmer Sven Nilsson of Nytorp under Skälby. He died the 17th of June 1828. He left behind his widow Karin (looks like Karing which is not a name)Nilsdotter and 2 children of age (age 25 and older). The son Niclaus, and daughter Cathrina who is married to Jonas Fitus. The property, debts etc. is listed below.

Margaret Ann Thompson

Thank you but I am confused.

If the estate record says Karin Nilsdotter is his widow how can Cajsa Jonsdotter be his wife in the household record which shows his death year?

Liv Anderson2

You are correct! Are you sure you have the correct person? Could the wife in the Household record be the wrong name. You will probably have to do some more checking on this family. Follow the family in earlier household records, as well as check his death record. Let me know what you find.

Margaret Ann Thompson

His death record does not list any other family members. Both the estate and household record list the same children, Niclas and Catharina (who married Jonas Persson Titus). I do not know how to find earlier household records. I tried searching marriage records but did not find anything.

Liv Anderson2

That is strange! Maybe the minister made a mistake. It is the last name that is confusing. She cannot be a Jonsdotter and Nilsdotter. See is you can their marriage in earlier records as both the children were of age. Check for their births as well.

 

 

 

Margaret Ann Thompson

We have Niclas's birth but only the father is listed. Have not been able to find Catharina. Why could the wife not be a Jonsdotter or Nilsdotter? I looked for marriages but could not find them, maybe looking in the wrong place or my Swedish is not good enough.

Norm Baker

I have spent some time looking at this problem and I am not sure that this is the correct death record for the Sven Nilsson of the household record in Kalmar landsförsamling (H) AI:1 (1821-1828). That household record says he is born in 1750 but the Swen Nilsson in the death record had to be born in 1760 (or his age when he died is incorrect). The household record doesn't say when Swen Nilsson died, only that he died. I know the time period for the household record says 1821-1828, but if you actually look at the dates of the household record, it is for 1821-1825. I have looked in the death records in the Kalmar Landsförsamling for a Swen Nilsson who died between 1821 and 1825, but couldn't find anything. This really is a mystery because the death date on the Probate was definitely 17 June, 1828.

 

In short, I don't see how the Swen Nilsson of the household record can be the father of Niclas Swensson. I think there must be another Swen Nilsson somewhere in the parish who is married to Karen Nilsdotter. Unfortunately, there are no earlier household records available in this parish. Kalmar Landsförsamling (Country Parish) was an annex parish to Kalmar Stadsförsamling (City Parish) so there may be earlier records in the Kalmar Stadförsamling records but those are really big!! The 1818-1827 household records consist of 6 books!

 

One final thought: One other problem I have about Niclas Swensson being the son of the Swen Nilsson in the household record is that Niclas is listed as a "Dräng" rather than a son. It is very unlikely that a son would be listed as a "Dräng" with his own family.

Norm Baker

This gets curiouser and curiouser! The priest in this parish seems to have trouble keeping "Jonsdotters" and "Nilsdotters" separate.

 

In looking again for the death of a 70ish year old Swen Nilsson I came across the death record of a daughter of Niclas Swensson. That record is here: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0027538_00023#?c=&m=&s=&cv=22&xywh=3022,2506,2969,1594 . This is the death of 3 year old Caisa Lisa, daughter of Niclas Swensson on 6 April 1821.

 

Her birth record is here (10 January 1818): https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0027538_00059#?c=&m=&s=&cv=58&xywh=280,1768,4276,2296 . Her mother is listed as Stina Nilsdotter. But Niclas Swensson married Stina Jonsdotter on 22 February 1818-a month and a half after the birth of Caisa Lisa. That record is here: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0027538_00011#?c=&m=&s=&cv=10&xywh=-15,849,4630,2970 . So the priest has obviously mixed up the names Stina Nilsdotter and Stina Jonsdotter. If it happened once, I suppose it could happen again.

 

That still doesn't explain that Swen Nilsson is listed as a "dräng" rather than as a "son" in the household record, nor the age discrepancy of the death record for Swen Nilsson (see my previous post above), but I suppose that there could be other reasons for those problems.

Margaret Ann Thompson

Thank you for your help. The estate record for Sven Nilsson gives his daughter as Catharina who married Jonas Persson Titus. The household record which shows Sven also shows Niclas & Catharina who is married to Jonas Persson Titus. I doubt there are too many Catharina Svendotters married to Jonas Persson Titus in that area and living near Niclas Svensson. I would really like to find the birth record for Catharina and see if her mother is listed.

Judith Clancy Dalebout

Here is a Cathrina born the next year. 1797. but no mother😥

Judith Clancy Dalebout

I think this is the marriage of Sven Nilsson. They are in the same village where he died. Arkiv Digital v34508.b49.s91

I also think this is Sven the father of Niclas on the household record because the death record says he died in this village. Maybe Cathrina died and he married Casja or maybe the clerk made a mistake.

Margaret Ann Thompson

Thank you. The people on this community are great!!!

What is the date of the marriage (I cannot read it)? What is the village?

The estate says her name is Karin. I have seen the names Karin, Cajsa and Catharina show up in searches as being possible matches. In the US census records people seemed to change their given names around and make variations.

Margaret Ann Thompson

The Estate says her name was Karin Nilsdotter. Maybe this was an earlier marriage to Catharina Jondotter?

Judith Clancy Dalebout

The marriage date is Nov 18, 1792. The village is Skälby

Norm Baker

Many names in Swedish records are interchangeable. Check out this article in the Family Search Wiki, especially the section on "Interchangeable First Names"

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Sweden_Names,_Personal . Basically, Karin, Cajsa (Caisa) and Catharina are all the same name. That is why searches for records in Family Search give those names as possible matches.

Margaret Ann Thompson

The way I see it the wives of Sven Nilsson are given as:

Catharina Jonsdotter married 1792 (marriage record)

Cajsa Jonsdotter wife in 1821-1825 (household record)

Karin Nilsdotter widow in 1828 (estate record)

 

Any help straightening this out would be appreciated.

 

Sven's son Niclas had 3 wives but they have been traced well in household records. The first 2 died and the 3rd survived him.

Judith Clancy Dalebout

You could check the death and marriage records

Norm Baker

Catharina, Cajsa and Karin are all the same name. See this article in the Wiki: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Sweden_Names,_Personal . Catharina Jonsdotter and Cajsa Jonsdotter are almost certainly the same person. Karin Nilsdotter and Cajsa/Catharina Jonsdotter may be the same person depending on whether the clerk (either in the parish or probate record) made a mistake. I think a mistake by the parish clerk is likely-see my earlier post above.