Can someone please translate the paragraph in the red box? Thank you!
Respuestas
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I'm also curious why transcribers list the birth place as "Niehove gem. Oldehove". Aren't Niehove and Oldehove separate villages?
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They are parts and little towns that are dependency's on another municipality.
Niehove is named as most beautiful town of Holland.
The topography is difficult to see or to observe from above on Google earth or G maps,
and moreover,-is different from what it was long ago.
All these area's are territory that was taken from the sea via dykes and polders,bled out
after the dykes were made.It is all very low terrain,some is even today below sea level.
Basically it was nearly all tidal estuarium.A good example would be in "het verdronken land van Saeftinge", not so far from my location here,wich is also nearly sealevel.
If you use it as a searchterm, and set google for pictures , you will see the whole idea.
I think Niehove is on a Terp, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terp
And Oldhove , wich is next to it, is on some dykes.One road connects both.
Adrie
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Which declared that on Friday 10th of the month
December this year,1830 this morning at 10 hrs
in the house signed number 25 at Niehove
within this municipality from comparant and his Housewife (name) aged 29 years,arbeidster from occupation(labourworker)living at Niehove in the house declared was born a child of the manly gender,wich will be named Ekte(?)
The parents could not sign, btw, analphabetic
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About the names, they are a difficult read, but if you post the link to the actual document, i can enlarge it very far and adjust
the tonescale, but i cannot do it if you post a snap of the document itself.
Its fixed frame and cropped for bandwith.
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Mum is called Geeske Jans Mollema, the son was named Ekke. Which makes sense, since his father's father was called Ekke. (Either Geeske was given the middle name Jans or her father is called Jan.)
By the way, Niehove is not in Holland, but in Groningen, which is part of The Netherlands. Holland consists of two provinces: Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland.
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Thanks for the corrections,..for the latter; in Belgium we use the terminology
Holland very frequently if we are talking about Netherlands.They also apparently dropped the 'the' , lately.
Its a common use here in Flanders.You will find it under popular use, in this link
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland
They even have a term for it.
Apparently it is a derivative of Houtland.(the division houtland/polder)
Thanks , i will pay attention to it.
Adrie (50% Dutch)
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Holland is also a very common term in American English for the Netherlands. Most of the early settlers (17th century) from the Netherlands to America were from what is now North and South Holland, but the two modern provinces were one province at that time. Indeed, it was not until 1840 that the two provinces were split. Because of the importance of Holland economically and politically, the name Holland has been used in many languages for the whole of the Netherlands. The fact that the earliest settlers were from there only reinforced that word usage.
Anita, if you don't mind me asking--where are you from? Your usage of he word 'mum' indicates that you are from GB or at least learned British English. If such is the case, could you enlighten us on the word 'Holland' in GB? That would be very interesting to know.
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Thanks for the inductions , Fritz, and now we are here,was the link any good, with the sayings and words ?...
I was short of time this last few weeks, partly due to the crisis,and also
my daughter bought the allotment of land just behind my house, so we will be neighbours and our gardens will kiss.A back to back environment!..
But the work on it grinded to a halt,after the concrete slab was poured.
That would give me some time to do the fencing.
Adrie
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I am from the part of The Netherlands that is called Holland. I moved to Wales (UK) 25 years ago. I just like to get the geography terminology correct. (So if I get it wrong, please tell me!) Here is a YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc&t=15s. The term Netherlands comes from Nederlanden, meaning lower lands. To me Groningen is not Holland, just as Wales is not England, and Colorado is not Utah. By the way, in Welsh they use Mam for Mum/Mom. I don't speak Welsh, but do surprise my children sometimes with knowing a Welsh word they don't know. Being Dutch I grew up with multiple languages. Dutch and English are my main ones though. I lost a lot of my German because it is rarely used here. I managed to help my children with French in secondary school, but don't really speak it. My son is a lot better in French - having served his mission in France/Switzerland. He now picks up things from French records he missed before his mission. He still calls on me to decipher some words . . .
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Thanks for the explanation Adrie. The article is interesting. The way the name Holland is used does not necessarily make it correct. I am hoping my sister, who is Dutch and lives in Vlaanderen, uses the names correctly.
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I stand corrected, and it is important to get all the variables correct,especially for the part of geography and history.We Belgians have a bit a bad flick of the wrist here around Zeeland and
speaking a sort of intermediate form of Dutch/Flemish.Any case, whatever the case , only exists
in a rightfull way by the grace of the correct details.So we must take a lot of care not to deviate to a context derived truth.
Most of the time, in Flemisch we write and speak Hollanders and Holland as Olland and Ollanders,
but if we stay in classical Dutch/Flemish the h is present.
I liked your info about your origins, btw, always nice to know the person spoken to.
My son lives in Dublin, and works there,...for Linkedin, developing app's.
Adrie
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Thank you for the translation and other information. I know the names, because Ekke is my 2x great-grandfather. The translation puts his birth in Niehove, but I know now why it was transcribed "Niehove gem. Oldehove". Ekke's birth record states that the civil registry official was for the municipality (gemeente) of Oldehove (it actually says Oldehove Kwartier). Wikipedia says Oldehove is a village now in the municipality of Westerkwartier, but also was a separate municipality until 1990, when it was merged with Zuidhorn. The Wikipedia page for Westerkwartier says it was formed on 1 January 2019, by the merger of the municipalities of Zuidhorn, Grootegast, Leek, Marum and partly Winsum.
Is there really acceptance for using "Netherlands" instead of "The Netherlands"? I was hard-captioning all my old Dutch photos, and had read that "The/the" should always precede Netherlands.
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Yes, the link was helpful--thank you so much!
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It was a bit of a deep scrolling to the material,but they have good content.
If i find more i will fly tip it here!..
Adrie
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Hm, well about the discussion "the" or not, i have been watching some debates about it,and altough the matter was pending at that time,i had the impression 'Netherlands" would be their new choice, and i can see it appearing here and there, altough i did not really check it out.Maybe Anita or Mieke could be aware of the progressing path?..but anyway, within some days i will post it-after checking. In Belgium we say simply Nederland, formally.
Adrie
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This is very interesting, Anita. I am very interested in demonyms and country names. 'Dutch' has interested me for a long time. IN English Dutch means the Netherlands (My Dutch colleague, btw, is absolutely adamant that 'the' must be used before 'Netherlands.' I agree with her. but, in Nederlands, duits means German, and in German deutsch means German as well. I know the history of these words, but I still find it interesting. BTW, should we now in English start saying 'Deutsch' and 'Deutschland' instead of German and Germany?
When I am speaking German, I almost always say Holländer instead of Niederländer. I think most German do that as well
Here is an interesting tidbit. Centuries ago, many Dutchmen migrated into and across northern Germany. One of the main occupations of these Dutchmen was in the dairy industry. So, the word Holländer in some northern German dialects can mean 'someone from Holland/the Netherlands' or 'a person who engages in the dairy industry.' I am unaware of the latter meaning in southern German. A few years ago, I went back to the very house where my ancestors lived (in Vorpommern). The place is actually a Molkerei. Got out of the car to speak with the present owners, and low and behold, where were they from? The Netherlands! They were Holländer twice over!
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"Netherlands" sounds just wrong to my ears. It is actually grating. It also doesn't make sense to me. It means 'the nether lands' i.e. 'the low lands'. I think if we are talking about the area of Scotland, we say 'the Lowlands'. Same idea.
I don't know what modern style guides are recommending, though.
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Actually it is a high quality idea to stir up the debate,Fritz,to lead us out of this boredom.
It took me an hour to trace back to the article in which "Netherlands" was walked on stage by the Belgian media,
but i will post it tomorrow,i also need to do some small work on a file with some workshop manuals for vintage
bikes.(I have a small garage with my brother to restore vintage bikes and outboard engines)
Actually there are things to learn here.-an interesting discours,and the presence of natives from Holland, oeps!
Adrie
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I agree with Fritz that it sounds wrong to drop "the" in a sentence. If I were to visit from the US, I would always say, "I'm going to the Netherlands". But in non-sentence form, like captioning a photo, I'd prefer something like, "John DeVries, Netherlands, 1893". But only if it was generally acceptable to do so.
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Douglas, i found back the link where the whole idea about 'Netherlands' only was launched in the media in Belgium,and where i wrongly assumed that it was a done deal.
I'm not going to translate, you can peel the onion with your eyes.(or Google transl)
This is also interesting, the way the Encyclopedia Brittanica only pushes 'The Netherlands' to the reader.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Netherlands/Transportation-and-telecommunications
-This is a very important issue,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Countries
and given the above, Belgium would have to be included if the term The Netherlands is used, historically speaking.But nobody will dress up with the idea.
it is like the case with Holland and the use worldwide of it , exeptations here in Nederland itself or Belgium.There are more questions to be raised than we might think....
To give some examples.
Are the Caribbean/Dutch isles like Saba, Curacao, Bonaire.. etc to be included under
the The Netherlands umbrella?, or do we exclude them geographically,? In Nederland the term today is "Bijzonder gemeente van Nederland"-Still sound like 'status aparte '
Another example is the Kongo, do we say Kongo or the Kongo? , apparently its loaded with the same ambiguity, as we also have the river The Kongo, and the DRC along the the story, ..
Another possible question that arises , is this, do we observe a geographical problem
only , or is a part of the problem semantic?, as in Nederland and Belgium "the" is not an issue, the term is only debated towards the other languages, altough De Nederlanden is common use.
These are some toughts.
Adrie
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There are other countries where 'The ...' used to be obligatory: The Ukraine ( I grew up saying this and it is very hard to eliminate it. But since Ukraine has asked for it, I try to accomodate. Do others have the same issue?), the Sudan, the Gambia, the Congo (this still carries 'the' in certain situations, though. To my mind, 'the Congo' almost has a jungle feel to it. The country is Congo, but on a river/jungle safari, "The Congo").
In German, 'die/der' is absolutely obligatory for many countries. It's always 'die Schweiz' (adjusted for case). You cannot say, "Ich wohne in Schweiz." Also, die Türkei; you have to say die. Der Irak and der Iran show up, too, among a number of others.
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Fritz , In Belgium we have the same habitual persistency towards Congo-, most of us still write Kongo,as that was the way it was presented at school, many Belgians even still use the old namings for the towns there, like Elisabethstad,Leopoldville, Jadotville =>(Shinkolobwe mine, were the Uranium for the first two bombs was mined).Kongo vrijstaat is another example.
We used to have a lot of people speaking (K)ongo,and other local languages.My sisters husband is born in Likasi,were his father was a aeroplane-mechanic.During his years there,he got malaria, and still has it.We still even use the term
Brousse, for jungle , from the French Brousse tigré (Walloons) or Wildernis/natuur (Vlaams)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brousse
Adrie
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