Bonstetten ZH - baptism - 1842 - Glättli - column titles
Respuestas
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Unfortunately I cannot view this image - just a lock symbol comes up.
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Bummer. I will try to figure this out as well since I can pull up the document using the link.
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Thank you for trying to help, PaulaAnn - but the resolution is insufficient to actually read it with confidence. Knowing this type of document I can guess what it says - but speculation is not a good idea in genealogy. On the top of your screenshot you see the download icon: please, download with original resolution and post this.
Also: could you please specify the source - and I mean the parish, the denomination (unless there is only one in the comminuty) and the years (unless given in the document: one often sees only month and day with an entry, but not the year).
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Thank you for uploading this page!
Attached is section with the column titles - incl. transcription and translation.
On line 6 we then find the baptism of Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli, born 26 Dec 1841 and baptised 09 Jan 1842 in Basel St.Theodor … you'll find the actual baptismal entry on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DYZ9-G5Y?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A68VP-ZCRQ&action=view (Basel records may be viewed from home). Father is Johannes Glättli, citizen of Bonstetten (canton Zürich) - one of the two citizenships existing since before 1800.
I would still be interested to get an exact reference for this record: looks like a collection of external baptisms, not really sorted chronologically.
I have edited the discussion title (originally What are the words at the top of the record?) to reflect this information.
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You wrote, I would still be interested to get an exact reference for this record: looks like a collection of external baptisms, not really sorted chronologically.
I couldn't find an exact reference of the baptism record for Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli (year 1842, Bonstetten parish register, Evangelisch-Reformierte Kirche). But I found a few pages from the church book (see attachments) that may help you figure out if the baptism is from "a collection of external baptisms".
1st image: the filming info i.e. Taufregister years 1812-1865.
2nd image: page 1 in the church book.
3rd image: page 165 is the beginning of the part where the baptism for Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli (page 172) is located.
4th image: page 216 is the last page of that part of the baptisms (the burial records begin on page 218).
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First of all: thank you for the images, Debra !
The situation is somewhat complicated, due to the fact that three communities are involved: Bonstetten ZH, likely Uitikon ZH, and the city of Basel. I'll try to describe that in a bit more detail.
The event under discussion is the baptism of a Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli on 09 Jan 1842.
According to the Register of Swiss Surnames Bonstetten is one (of two) places of citizenship since before 1800. According to "Zürcher Familiennamen" (Victor Schobinger et al.) Glättli (Gletteli) can be found in several Aargau communities since the early 14th century. The first mention in Bonstetten is Hans Glettli in 1491.
Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli belongs to the Bonstetten line (see baptismal entry in Basel). Debra couldn't find a corresponding entry in the Bonstetten church record - whether is was not reported there, or not recorded, or recorded out of chronological sequence (see below), I can't say.
It was reported to and recorded in (what I assume to be from the context) the Uitikon church record: it is this record where I was/am interested in the reference - is it actually from the Uitikon baptismal register (external baptisms)? Here the baptism has been recorded - as having taken place in Basel St.Theodor. This Uitikon(?) register does not seem to stick strictly to chronological sequence - hence my assumption that this might also be the case in the Bonstetten record.
In the Basel record it is stated that the father was a citizen of Bonstetten. So what can conclude for this family?
The family were citizens on Bonstetten - but did not live there. The fact that the baptism has been reported to Uitikon and was recorded there, implies that the family lived there at least for some time. They will likely have been "Ansässen" - people with permission to live there, without being citizens. Hovever, that fact that Johann Jakob Sebastian Glättli was baptised in Basel indicates that at least around this time the family lived in or near Basel. BTW - in 1873 a Glättli line from Bonstetten actually gained the citizenship of Basel.
Just as an aside: the Bonstetten records (pages 165 and 216) contain a large number of external baptisms for Glättli. So the family seems to have been quite numerous … and moving around a lot.
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BEWARE: Much of the above considerations may be based on incorrect assumptions - see https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/comment/546258/#Comment_546258. Sorry for the confusion.
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As mentioned above: quite a few external baptisms have been recorded for Glättli families of Bonstetten … here from page 165:
04 Jul 1829 (Zürich) Daniel of Hans Jakob Glättli and Barbara Knecht
11 Aug 1829 (Paris) Heinrich Klemens of Heinrich Glättli and Annette Nelaurent()?
10 Jan 1830 Altstätten (likely Altstetten ZH - not Altstätten SG) Anna of Johannes Glättli and Maria Boßhard (Bosshard / Bosshardt / Bosshart)
24 Oct 1830 (Zürich) Barbara of Heinrich Glättli and Elisabetha Mörgeli
13 Feb 1831 (Dietikon) Barbara of Jakob Glättli and Anna Surber
27 Mar 1831 (Altstetten) Anna Elisabetha of Hans Rudolf Glättli and Barbara Rüegg
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In order to avoid confusion, the following contribution has been edited:
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I just noted that in the above record several other external Glättli baptisms are recorded (sorry for assuming the first one would be the only one):
09 Jan 1842 (Basel St.Theodor) Johann Jakob Sebastian of Johannes Glättli and Maria Barbara Mohler (see above)
24 Jul 1842 (Mettmehnstätten = Mettmenstetten ZH) Friedrich of Johannes Glättli and Verena Hurter
05 Jan 1823 (Ütikon = Uitikon ZH) Johannes of Hans Rudolf Glättli and Regula Müller
03 Oct 1826 (Ütikon = Uitikon ZH) Hans Jakob of Hans Rudolf Glättli and Regula Müller
29 Oct 1826 (Ütikon = Uitikon ZH) Rudolf of Hans Rudolf Glättli and Regula Müller
Something is wrong with the last two entries - only checking the Uitikon records will likely help to fix that (see below). Now - on https://us.v-cdn.net/6032564/uploads/KUDCCG7HKBCK/image.png we have a Hans Jakob (born 1824) and a Rudolf, born 1826 to Hans Jacob Glättli and Regula Müller (same mother but different father) 🤔 … confusing and showing that knowing exact references is important. Keep in mind that there are two communities, Uetikon and Uitikon, both in canton Zürich - but different communities - some 25 km apart. Uitikon is pronounced "Ütike" in dialect - which explains the spelling in the external baptismal register.
https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/comment/546425/#Comment_546425 gives the answer: Hans Jacob was born 29(?) Sep, and baptised 03 Oct 1824 (not 1826) in Uitikon, son of Rudolf Glättli and Regula Müller. Hans Jacob Glättli and Elisabeth Glättli, both from Bonstetten, were witnesses.
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Thank you everyone that has posted information and insights. It is all a little overwhelming, and I might get interrupted by children before I have a chance to read through everything and digest what has been said. However, I wanted to thank you all, and not overlook expressing my gratitude. I will ask more questions as they come up.
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