Seeberg BE - marriage - 1698 - Walther&Münch - place names
Jacob Walther and Verena Münch got married 18. March 1698. I think it was written were they are from after their name, but even if I now know better some of the places in Bern, I can't understand which place they are from. I'm very thankful for help.
Comentarios
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Jacob Walther is "aus der K(irchgemeinde) Winigen" (parish of Wynigen).
For Verena Münch I am stuck: it states "aus der" - so I would expect a place name to follow. - but read "regenh. virgo ...". Has the "virgo" accidentally been shifted and belongs to the brides name, indicating she was a virgin (find that both after the bride's name or the place name)?
Unless someone else comes up with a solution here for the bride's origin, I recommend you post this question on https://www.geneal-forum.com/ - where you will reach a much larger audience of Swiss resident researchers.
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I got stuck in the same place. Then I checked the whole page in the marriage register (Seeberg Register 2, page 172/173) and found that the spouses are almost always described as juv(enis) [young man] or virgo [virgin]. In the first entry on page 172, for example, Maria Waber is described as virgo praegnans [pregnant virgin (whatever that means...)]. I therefore assume that the second illegible word in Verena Münch's line is a similar addition.
"regenh." could be the abbreviated name for the location "Regenhalden" near Seeberg.
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Both - thank you som much for your answers. Maybe it is like it's in Norway, the women was called -Pige (girl) or Jomfru (virgin ( a girl from a better family)) if they had not been married before. even if they was pregnant, og had children.
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Verena Münch was born in Regenhalden. I found her baptism in 1672 in the church book of Seeberg.
So thank you again.
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www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/19/D96574.pdf#page=41 (direct link doesn't work with all browsers - you may have to select page 41 manually).
Father is Daniel Münch - so this doesn't explain the last word (after virgo): anyone any idea what it is?
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I am afraid that there is a misunderstanding here. Verena Münch's baptism and her marriage to Jakob Walther are two independent events. Verena's baptism has nothing to do with the abbreviation in the wedding entry that follows virgo.
I took a closer look at the marriage register of Seeberg ( https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/19/D96574.pdf#page=157) for the years 1672 to 1707 and found the following:
1. In 1672 a new pastor, Frantz Ludwig Bachmann, arrives. From this time onwards, the spouses are given the suffix viduus/vidua (widower/widow), juvenis (young man) and virgo (virgin).
2. Starting in 1696, 'ohne Kranz' (without wreath; the hair wreath was a symbol of virginity) or the ominous abbreviation appear additionally.
3. In 1707 the handwriting changes. Apparently a new, unnamed pastor came to Seeberg. The additions mentioned under 1 and 2 disappear.
4 Among the additions, the following stand out in particular:
- abortum pahsa(?) ante nuptias (page 171, pdf 162) miscarriage before the wedding
- virgo praegnans (page 172, pdf 163) pregnant virgin (???)
- puerpera ante nuptias (page 172, pdf 163) woman in childbirth before the wedding
5. To understand the meaning of the abbreviation in question I took some screenshots for comparison:
- virgo praegnans written out (page 172, pdf 163)
- virgo with abbreviated additions (the first one is the abbreviation in question)
page 172, pdf 163
page 171, pdf 161
page 176, pdf 165
- vidua with abbreviated additions
page 171, pdf 162
page 171, pdf 162
page 175, pdf 164
To me it is clear that the abbreviation stands for 'praegnans'. What do you think?
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Two comments:
1) There is no misunderstanding 🙂: often you find the father's name after a groom's or bride's name in a wedding entry - which is why I checked for the father ... David ... and the last word definitely is not "Davids".
2) I agree - likely an abbreviation for "praegnans". I have to admit, however, that I never have seen "virgo" to indicate a pregnant bride - but in this parish at least it seems to have been quite common 🤔.
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So the misunderstanding is on my side!
I did a Google search on „virgo praegnans“ which produced a list of results but no satisfying interpretation. Nevertheless it looks like there was some sort of connection to the bible.
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Well, I'm aware of Virgin Mary, ofcourse - but this will not be the explanation in "our" case.
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Thank you so much. I'm learning more and more to do research in Switzerland. This is so helpful. Verena Münch was pregnant and gave birth to a baby girl just 2-3 months after the wedding.
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