What did he get?
So, I mentioned on a Hungarian genealogy forum that I'm trying to track down the origin of the oft-repeated 1838 date for the awarding of the noble epithet/title/whatever-you-call-em "nagyrápolti" (von/de Nagyrápolt) to Szent-Györgyi Imre 1784-1862. (He's the first by that name in a string of four, so the dates are necessary. Granted, the second one was only eleven years old in 1838.) One of the regulars, who has some sort of genealogical-searching superpower, turned up a record from 1836, mentioning something in connection with Imre (Emericus) and Nagyrápolt, but I can't quite figure out what it says and what it means.
Hungaricana / Könyvtár / Indizes und Protokollbücher des Bestandes Kamerale Siebenbürgen 1765–1853 (FHKA Kamerale Siebenbürgen) – Az Udvari Kamara erdélyi sorozatának segédkönyvei 1765–1853 / AT-OeStA/FHKA Kamerale Siebenbürgen Bücher 70 – Index – 1836 / S_19 (199/245)
https://library.hungaricana.hu/hu/view/FHKA_Kam7bgn_070_1836/?pg=198&layout=s
My reading:
Szent-Györgyi, Emericus. Sieb. Gubernialrats [I think I know this part: Siebenbürgen = Transylvania, Rats = of the council].
Verleihung des Fiscalantheils Nagy-Rapolt. ?. Nagy-Rapolt. (Gut)
So, questions: (1) Am I even reading it correctly? (1a) What is that letter between the two mentions of Nagy-Rapolt? (2) What does it mean, that is, what did he actually get? If it's a property in Nagy-Rápolt, or the income from same, then why is the placename there twice? (What is that letter in between?) (2a) What's with the parenthetical "Gut" at the end? (Or am I misreading it?)
(Bonus question: is it possible to get this collection or record to cough up an exact date for the "transaction"?)
Comentarios
-
This is way beyond my highschool German, but what I see is "Nagy-Rapolt von Nagy-Rapolt (güt)".
Perhaps he got the title Nagy-Rapolt von Nagy-Rapolt.
0 -
@Christopher Kovach_1, thanks for trying! This index entry is apparently from two years earlier than the title, which was just "von Nagy-Rapolt". (The repeat of the placename wouldn't make much sense there, either; he already had -- and continued to use -- a perfectly good family name to append it to: Szent-Györgyi.)
The closest I've gotten so far to an actual royal document about the title is the Illésy collection's entry, which is dated 20 June 1838 (https://archives.hungaricana.hu/en/libriregii/hu_mnl_ol_a130_illesy_1sz_1089/?list=eyJxdWVyeSI6ICJuYWd5clx1MDBlMXBvbHQqIn0). Of course, it also (inexplicably) adds an extra 'g' to the name, so who knows what other errors it has...
This is all well beyond my high school German, too, but one thing I have learned in the past ...13 years? of genealogy addiction is that that's not an u-umlaut. They put that little curved thingy above the letter 'u' to differentiate it from the letter 'n', which was otherwise identical. (They're also both very, very similar to the letter 'e', but for some reason, they didn't feel it necessary to differentiate from that.)
(That sorting is assuming that my reading is correct.)
I think this illustrates why my mildest name for it is That Dratted Handwriting.
0 -
Dear Julia:
If this is in German, post in the German Group, they will be able to translate it for you. PaulaAnn
0 -
I posted here rather than in Germany Research because Transylvania ain't even remotely Germany. I don't know if anyone there can tell me anything about what the words translate to in practical terms, that is, what would've changed and how in the family's life as a result of whatever the heck this is.
Maybe I'll post a link there to this thread. No sense in subjecting two groups to my excessive wordiness. :-]
0 -
(1a) What is that letter between the two mentions of Nagy-Rapolt?
I think it's an 's' (siehe) and probably means there is an extra entry somewhere relating to the Nagy-Rapolt Estate (Gut).
(2) What does it mean, that is, what did he actually get? If it's a property in Nagy-Rápolt, or the income from same, then why is the placename there twice? (What is that letter in between?)
Fiscalantheil (or Fiskalanteil) translates as fiscal element or fiscal stimulus. So it´s probably related to tax law? Not a tax law expert, unfortunately; but I'll see if I can find anything.
(2a) What's with the parenthetical "Gut" at the end? (Or am I misreading it?)
A gut is an estate, typically a Landgut (agricultural property).
2 -
From the German font, it is definitely an s. between the two references to Nagy-Rápolt.
Yes, your transcription is very accurate. To be specific, the word breaks down into syllables as Fis/cal/ant/heil
Translation: "Awarding of the Nagy-Rapolt fiscal share. see Nagy-Rapolt estate"
He received some kind of money connected to the Nagy-Rapolt estate. It does not specify what the money was issued for, such as annual annuity, taxes, or inheritance. A native German speaker may be able to provide some context here, but it also may be an archaic word.
1 -
“Yes, your transcription is very accurate. To be specific, the word breaks down into syllables as Fis/cal/ant/heil“
@Suzi_Trotter Sorry but it doesn't break down into those syllables. You can't divide 'antheil' into 'ant' and 'heil'. It's a Theil (part; nowadays spelled 'Teil') an (of) something. You're right about the rest; the term itself is not archaic but it's a terminus technicus.
1
