Looking for town/city/? of Paljes'
Hello, according to the birth record of my great grandfather's sister their father was a Miller of Paljes'. I cannot, however, find such a place. The record was in a Lutheran Church book in Polotsk district of Vitebsk Governorate. Is anyone familiar with this? I have included the birth record (written in German) for reference. Thank you!
Comentarios
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Hello,
I am afraid this may mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polesia which is a huge area on the borders of current Ukraine and Belarus rather than a specific town or village.
Best regards,
Igor.
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Thank you!
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@KristinKolk Would You mind sharing the source of the scan?
Without broader comparative material, it's touch problematic to discern but scan You provided indicates that scribe is somewhere between modern script and Kurrentschrift (old german script). Bit throwing off but You might benefit from accurate transcript, let's transcribe it (line for line for analytical purposes):
107. Elise Auguste Catha=
rina des Müllers in Saljes
Karl Köhler u. ds. Eef. Emi= [Karl Köhler und dessen Ehefrau Emi=]
lie geb. Krause ehel. Tochter. [lie geborene Krause eheliche Tochter.]
Die Eltern sind luth. Die [lutherisch]
Taufe vollzog in der <requires more = [Lutherische?]
efference material> Kirche der Pastor adj.
W. Peitan
Pathen: 1. Eduard Wiehmann
2. Elise dessen Frau, 3. Catharina Walter
Paljes seems actually to be Saljes
Other birth records may yield more discernable birthplaces and see the actual range of the parish, also that would be great point for expert of the area to check for possible matches with gazetteers. Good luck!
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First two columns read
Am zehnten Juli 3 Uhr Nachmittags
Am ersten Sept.
Translation:
Time if birth: 10 July at 3 PM
Time of baptism: 1st of September
Record number 107 of birth of Elise Auguste Catharina legitimate daughter of millers in Saljes, Karl Köhler and his wife Emilie nee Krause. Parents are Lutheran. Baptism was conducted in (i assume Lutheran) church by pastor W. Peitan in presence of 3 godparents listed.
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a small correction it was not so well visible but 1st godparent name actualy reads Eduard and NOT Eonard, didn't sit well with me.
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Thank you very much for for transcribing, translating and for the advice! After studying other records listed I just realized that the godparents Edward and Elise Wiehmann had a child in the same year as another sibling of my great grandfather, and I found a death record for for that same sibling (and another) that gives yet another location. It seems both Edward and Carl were millers from different areas of the same region and I would have to agree with you, now that I look through more records and see the handwriting patterns it is definitely not a P but a S. I think I have now been able to narrow down the area. This record is from in Raduraksti.arhivi.lv under Polockas (Evang. Luth outside Latvian Territory). It was apparently at that time part of the Polotsky Uyezd of the Vitebsk Governorate, but eventually changed to the region Latgale of Latvia.
See Right Side:
Towards the Middle:
So between the death records (Garani Pasiene) and and the birth record of the child of the god parents (Landskron = Skaune) I at least have an idea of where they were from, although I'm still not positive where exactly Saljes is.
Thank you again!!!
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@KristinKolk wonderful work. Landskron = Skaune seems to check out
source: etomesto, map of 1864
At this point it will be pure conjecture, BUT, look at record 59 of birth, it not only mentions Saljes but also "Swilowa"
what if Saljes is not a village but rather "area" back in Belarus I was thinking шалаш/шалаc (shalash/shalas - a shack or makeshift wooden shelter) but in Latvia (still Russian language influence) I'm thinking залесье, or zalesie in polish, meaning, behind forest, many areas are named like this, but there's one in Latvia that just so happens to have a "Swilowa", Sviļova Zaļesje Parish, LV-5751. Sounds a little too good to be true and no map of the period available on etomesto confirms that but...... big coincidence
As to death record, I had no luck with "Pa(s/h)ini Garani" but rest reads as follows:
record 7: Catherine Emilie Köhler, daughter of Carl and Emilie, died 16 January 1881, buried 18 January 1881, 3 years old child, cause unknown
record 8: Olga Eveline Köhler, daughter of Carl and Emilie, Died 14 December 1881, buried 17 December 1881, 5 years old child, cause unknown.
I really hope someone familiar with the region can help You geo-locate the places, as I'm out of my depth here.
Best of luck!
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You have been very helpful, thank you for taking the time to look into this! I really appreciate your ideas and insight. I will let you know if I find something concrete.
Take care and thank you again!
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So I looked up Sviļova Zaļesje Parish, LV-5751 and followed the Istra River and found a mill! As luck would have it there was actually a street view available and there was even a mill stone out front. I have to believe this must be the right place...
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Wow... Building looks like 200-ish years old, by the river, very likely a mill.
Pasini Garani kept me up a bit, but working off the assumption that record can contain either City or village or "parish" lv. pagasts, or two of them:
Record 107 records only pagasts Saljes -> Zalesje
record 57 records only Landskron -> Šķaune as it's both a major city and center for "sort of county", pagasts
record 59 records both Swilowa and Saljas which we previously interpreted as Sviļova Zaļesje pagasts
than upholding that pattern Pasini Garani could by a stretch of logic located as Garaņi, Pasiene Parish, LV-5732
Pasine pagasts just happens to be caked between Skaune and Zaljesie counties.
Please note this whole construct, I cannot be certain of it, I'm new to the group and unfamiliar with regional characteristics, as such cannot vouch for more than my reading skills, but in my primary regions of research I would say that coincidences make it at least plausible.
As It's my first work in the group I would be glad if someone crosschecked.
Best wishes
U.
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@KristinKolk I have another update for You, since I have no access to those records i went through births listed and crossed it with your record, the line of baptism that needed more reference reads: "Taufe vollzog in der Lutzenschen Kirche der Pastor adj."
As it happens there is one such place close to Garani, Pasine and Landskron (Skaune), Ljucyn, todays Ludza.
Other records mention this or other form "Lutzin" but also one that was a complete mismatch "Sebehen" bith that too can be found on map "nearby".
1825 map
1837 map:
Something to consider.
Best wishes, U.
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That is amazing, I never even looked at that part, but honestly I'm just beginning to learn German so translation is very difficult for me. It is interesting to actually see how it triangulates- thank you for mapping it out! Here is a link for yet another sibling I just found this week, Leon Edward. Maybe then you would have access?
Thank you again for all of your time!
Kristin
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Transcript word for word, mark by mark, [abbreviations expanded in brackets]
Column 1: Am siebenten Juli 10 Uhr Morg. [Morgens]
Column 2. Am ein u. dreisigsten August [und, odd notation of mumeral]
Body:
97. Leon Eduard, ehel. Sohn des [ehelicher]
Müller zu Saljehs Karl Ernst Köler
u. des. Ehef. Emilie Geb. Krause [und dessen Ehefrau]
Die Eltern sind luth. Die Taufe [lutherisch]
vollzog in der Lutzenschen Kirche
der Pastor adj. W. Peitan
Pathen: Eduard Weihmann
Philipp G__berg [cant decipher this surname]
Rudoplh Gägermann
Mathilde des. Tochter [dessen]
Translation:
Record 97 Baptism of Leon Eduard born on 7th of July, son of Karl Ernst Köler, a Miller from Saljehs and his wife Emilie nee Krause. Parents are Lutheran. Baptism was conducted on 31st of August in church in Lutzen by assistant pastor W. Peitan in presence of godpatents/witnesses listed.
From this record we learn Karl's second name, "Ernst"
Have a good day, best wishes, U.
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I am very excited about this particular record with the second name of Karl! I have been making lists of potential Karl Kohler's in Latvia (not a short list!) for a while now and actually had a Karl Ernst Kohler on my list. Thank you and have a good day!
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