Are their Guilds, Indentured servant, Apprentice or Free Mason records for Wales?
My Father has found parish, military and Censes record on our Welsh and German Ancestors. Was mentioning the trade of my German Ancestors 7 years ago and came to the knowledge of the guild records. I do not know where to start but thought I would start with the Cole miner trade and Smith trade in Wales. My Great-great-great Grandfather on my mothers side was a Free Mason with Brigham Young. That side also comes from Wales. Is their anyone in this group that would know where to look for such records?
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Most of these records would normally be found at the county record office. Which county in Wales did your ancestor live in?
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Here is a link that should help you with the Free Masons in Wales: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/1bb2c521-1e81-431b-b6a4-4a7fe66548f0
This video may also help you in researching your Indentured Servants.
I hope this helps.
Kind Regards,
Shannon
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@Darris Williams My ancestor was born in Llangybi,Cardiganshire, Wales but registered as a smith stcker and collier in Monmouthshire on the 1841, 1851 census.His father was a smith or Collier as well. I have question if the stamp tax act of England for apprenticeship in 1710 to about 1810 would have included the southern western part of wales.
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@Davis Aaron Arthur1 My ancestors were also from Cardiganshire and went to Monmouthshire to work in the mines about the same time period. I have never found any trade union or guild records, at least not until the latter part of the 19th century when they began to form labor unions. Coal miners were often poor, had no employment rights, and moved frequently between pits. New workers were mentored by more experienced workers, or young boys were taken into the pits by their fathers when they came of age. Mine owners had no reason to keep good records of their employees.
The registers for apprenticeships under the stamp act did include the whole of Great Britain and can be searched on Ancestry.
Hope this helps!
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I agree with @SerraNola that the apprenticeship records indexed due to the tax will include Wales. Unfortunately, I wouldn't expect a coal miner/collier to be apprenticed. Since the index is available on Ancestry it is worth checking to eliminate that record collection.
The Richard Burton Archives at the University of Swansea holds the South Wales Coalfield Collection. Most of the records relate to the late 1800s and the 1900s. They have some very interesting materials and their website and catalog is worth a visit.
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@SerraNola @Darris Williams My ancestors where Smith Stickers on the census of 1841,1851. Would either on of you know what a Smith Sticker is?
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@Davis Aaron Arthur1 I'd like to see the actual images and look at the other families on the same street. Will you share the details of where to see the 1841 & 1851 census so we can evaluate this. I don't remember seeing this occupation before and would like to investigate.
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@Darris Williams These are the notes from my father. I have not looked at the film myself except the film that my father posted in memories with John Davies at 76 as a laborer and loger in a copy of a census.FHC Film 104847 pg. 98 #295 is the marriage of David Davies to Mary Lleashon. FHC Film # 4388-46 Dist #17 is the 1841 census Record of Manmoel Tredegar dist Bedwelty Parish Monmouth, England with David Davies, his wife and his children. And according to my father has his occupation. The death of David Davies first wife is in British Civil Reg. Merthyr Tydful # 219. FHL film # 673275 has John Davis Temple Journal. The 1851 FHL film # 104185 pg 840+ is the Manmoel, Bedwelty,Monmouth census of 1851. My father also referenced the LDS branches that he look through but could not find the records of the family in the Ebby Vale,Rhymney or Pontypool branches film #104172 and film #104171.
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@Darris Williams As far as I can tell my father stopped this project in 2019. He has done extensive research sence he was about 12 years old and he is currently 76. Traditionally this job is passed from Eldest son to Eldest son. So I am just starting where my dad left off. I am the 5th generation to do so sence the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the 7th generation from John Davies.
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It appears that David Davies is in FamilyTree with the ID# L8BW-JTN.
The 1851 census shows that David Davies is a Smith Stricker. The additional letter r makes a little more sense to me since a smith would hit metal or strike metal with hammers.
I can't say why the occupation was reported in this way to the census taker. David may have had some specific type of smith work that he did in the industrial areas where he lived. Spellings were not standardized at the time you are researching so be careful to consider how words may have sounded versus how the were or may have been spelled on the surviving documents.
Most people in Wales with a skilled trade like smith would have been trained by their father or another family member. Actual apprenticeship records would not be very likely.
I suggest a focused search in the Aberporth parish registers which exist for 1662-1971 for christenings. These should be available on FamilySearch, Ancestry and Findmypast. Since you have David's father's name from David's second marriage you have great information to search those Aberporth parish registers.
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This excerpt is from a book about blacksmithing in America in the 1800's, but since this country was populated with immigrants it probably describes a similar process in Wales:
"A blacksmith usually was assisted by helpers, young boys (often the smith’s own sons) who intended to be future blacksmiths themselves. “For the blacksmith,” writes historian Aldren Watson, “in spite of all his fine equipment and a binful of charcoal, couldn’t have forged anything much more elaborate than a few pairs of small butterfly hinges without a helper.” The work was quite demanding. For up to 10 hours a day, the most junior helpers would operate the bellows, which fed air to the forge, keeping the fire hot enough to for the smith to mold the “black” iron into shape. They often lived in the shop itself, waking before dawn to stoke the forge fire. After fanning the flames they would distill charcoal for fuel. The key helper was the “striker,” who gave the hardest blows at the smith’s command. With the assistance of his helper, a blacksmith used tongs to heat metal in the forge until it reached a temperature of around 1700 °F. He would then place the metal against the anvil and direct the work of his striker, who would hammer the metal with a heavy sledge. This process, called “drawing out,” would increase the length or width of the metal. Using a variety of tools specifically designed for the task, the smith would then cut, punch, bend and shape the metal into any shape desired. The work was grueling, hot, loud, smoky and dangerous. After a few years, a striker could graduate to apprenticeship, learning all the techniques and tricks of the trade. He would also learn how to make his own tools: tongs, hammers, chisels, punches, bending forks and cleavers, among others."
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@Darris Williams Thanks for the info. According to my father their are no records that match the John Davies in the Aberporth Records before 1811. But my 9th cousin matched David Davies christening to April 6 ,1799 in Llangybi, Cardiganshire parish. This parish was directed by A Unitarian minister named David Davis until 1782 and he became Dafis Castellhywel. As far as I can tell the Aberporth Parish is of the St. David order and Catholic. The birth of David Davies is March 17,1799. These two parishes are 26 miles apart. This would have been two days of travel by wagon. Currently the population of Aberporth is just over 2500 and Llangybi is about 650 this would create the probability of very few options for freedom of religious worship with the size of the population in the area.Considering this family joined the church in 1850 , it is highly likely they where non conformist. I have not dived into the culture of the non conformist Welch people.
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@SerraNola The work houses for the poor in England where not standardize until 1835 but done through the parishes and the Apprenticeship.
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