A bit of detective work and help with reading/translating records

LuciaV

Hello, today I stumbled upon a record (by accident, while researching something else) within a family I thought my research for was finalized.

For context: My ancestors, Martin Zemko & Theresia Chudi (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-LBTH-9W5T?from=lynx1UIV8&treeref=LV36-6HP&i=234 - second record in the year 1870 - Can someone help me translate the note in the last column? Something about the baptism of the groom?) were married in 1870 and (to my knowledge) had 9 children together:

Mária (1870) - born in Lakács, Hungary (today Lukáčovce, Slovakia)

Veronica (1873), Roza (1874), Margaretha (1876), Sophia (1878) - All born in Eleckse, Hungary (today Alekšince, Slovakia)

Eva (1880) - Born in Nyitra, Hungary (Today Nitra, Slovakia)

Ludovicus (1882), Anna (1883) and Michal (1885) - All born in Nagy Tapolcsány, Hungary (Today Topoľčany, Slovakia)

-all their baptism records can be found in Theresia's sources (LV36-6HP)

-there are 2 names for godfathers repeated - Lopaska Michael for 7 of the children and Baumann Joannes for 2 (Veronica and Margaretha)

4 different godmothers - Mária Petráš x3, Lopaska Eva x2, Halmes Eva x3 and Miklovič Anna only for the birth of Anna

That was it, myself nor my relative who also researches this family branch couldn't find anymore children.

Until today, when I tried to look more into Theresia's parents and siblings, I discovered an illegitimate child, ANNA CHUDI, born to mother Theresia Chudi on Jan 28th, 1867 - my ancestor Theresia would be 20 years old, that is all okay (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GBT7-WJ8?i=16&cc=1554443&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVNC-1YRC - record no. 5 on the page). Now this is where I need a bit of help with reading the record. In the parents column it says "Chudi Theresia filia ???". Daughter of who? Can't really read that last part.

Her godparents are Baumann Joannes (would add up with two of her assumed sisters Veronica and Margaretha) and (here I'm not sure I'm reading correctly) Kostych Anna? This name does not appear in any of her assumed siblings' baptism records. Can you read something more in the godparents column?

House No. column says Elecske No. 4. This adds up as based on the 1869 Slovakia Census, Theresia lived at this address with her family just two years later in 1869 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G99K-CBBR?i=10&wc=QZ7W-S18%3A323642401%2C323830301&cc=1986782 - if you click on the previous page, you'll see it's house No. 4). I would like to request help with reading and translating this record in general if anyone is willing to help with that. Especially the family relations and who was Josef Halmes and why was he living with them?

I noticed there is a baby called Anna, born in 1868 here, but later I figured out, she was the daugther of János and Mária (nee Dubovski). Is János Theresia's brother? Found her in the records and she was born on Jan 3rd 1869 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-8BT7-424?i=34&cc=1554443 - record No. 2) and died on Mar 22nd 1872 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-8BT7-HX4?i=513&cc=1554443&cat=1105982 - first record on the page)

So I searched more and found the actual Anna I was looking for, dying on Jan 30th 1867 at only 3 days old (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-8BT7-WJM?i=469&cc=1554443&cat=1105982 - 3rd record on this page). Is there anything interesting in this record you could translate for me?

If you read this far, I applaud you and if you can help with any of my questions I would be really grateful. Also sorry for any language mistakes, English is not my mother tongue.

So my main question is: How sure can I be this 3 days old baby ANNA CHUDI was born to my ancestor THERESIA (is this the same THERESIA??) before Theresia got married to Martin Zemko?

Julia Szent-Györgyi

5. Born (1867 Jan.) 28, baptised 28.

Child: Anna, female, illegitimate

Parents: Theresia Chudi daughter of a farmer, R. Catholic

Residence: Elecske no. 4

Godparents: Joannes Baumann oxherder of Elecske, Anna Kostyal oxherder-woman of Elecske, R. Catholics

Officiant: brother Apollinarius Beldovics, order of St. Francis

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7. (1867 Jan.) 30th. Anna Chudi daughter of Theresia, farmer-woman, residence Elecske no. 4, female, age 3 days, cause weakness, burial in the cemetery of Elecske on 31st January, officiant Joannes Velschütz schoolmaster of Lakács.

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1870 January

2. 31st.

Martinus Zemko son of Joannes farmer and of Anna Nádaszky, soldier in infantry [unit of some kind] Ramming number 72, and Theresia Chudi daughter of Joannes farmer and of Helena Fancsovics

Birthplace and residence Nagy-Kosztolány, Elecske no. 23; Elecske no. 2.

R. Cath.

Age: 25 years, 23 years

single, single

Witnesses: Joannes Holbicska, farmer of Elecske, Petrus Halmes farmer of Elecske

Officiant: the same [brother Udaliscus? Horvath order of St. Francis, assistant parson]

Announced

Baptismal record of groom filed in the parochial archive under number 2 for the year 1870.

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Dvorzsák's gazetteer (1877) reports a total population for Elecske of just over 600 people; it had a (smallish) Jewish congregation locally, but no churches. Most of the residents were Roman Catholic and were recorded in Lakács.

(I noticed a typo: you transposed the s and k in Elecske. If it helps, 'cs' is Hungarian for 'ch' as in 'church'; the village's name is pronounced roughly /EL-etch-keh/.)

Given that the illegitimate child's godfather matches Margaret's and Veronica's, including his not-just-a-farmer occupation, I think that she's very likely to be "your" Theresia's first. Of course, 600 people is actually plenty big enough for a full repeat of names between two different couples, but there aren't any other signs of that here: the birthdate intervals are all reasonable, a bunch of godparents match, and while the residence and father's occupation change over time, the changes make sense: first he's a soldier, living in Elecske, then he's a farmer, still in Elecske, then he gets a job as a cop in the city (Nyitra), then he gets transferred to Nagy-Tapolcsány, and then a few years later he finds work in a factory in Tavarnok (then just outside Nagy-Tapolcsány, now absorbed into it).

Oh, and I think the residence of Lakács on Maria's baptism in 1870 is an error, given that the house-number matches the one given for the groom nine months previously, in Elecske.

LuciaV

Thank you very much Julia for helping me again!

I'm pretty certain that those 9 legitimate children all come from the same couple, I was aware of the family's move from Elecske (Alekšince) to Nagy Tapolcsány (Topoľčany) because the parents are buried there as well as the kids Michal and Róza with their families. Ludovicus ended up overseas in New York, Mária, Eva and Anna died as kids, Sophia got married in Budapest but then came back to Slovakia. I have no idea what happened to Veronica and Margaretha (tho my grandma talks about a cousin Márgit she had, who I'm suspecting to be Margaretha's daughter since they have the same name), would love to find out.

Thank you for the information about Martin being a cop! We were always wondering about that one random child they had in Nitra (we only found out about Eva months after we already had all the other siblings - her birth wasn't indexed) who then died in Topoľčany only a year after. Now we know the probable reason of them moving.

Yeah, I'm also thinking Anna b.1867 is a part of my family, there would be too much coincidences. You can never be 100% sure, but I think we're pretty close.

Thank you for the error spotting in Maria's record. It sure is more than possible that they were living in Elecske indeed.

Could you maybe check out the census record as well if it's not a bother? I'm mostly interested in this Josef Halmes person and why he's living with them. The name Halmes appears to be around the family a lot but it was never Josef. From what I see it doesn't say his relationship to the head of household but I don't speak Hungarian nor German. Maybe his occupation will tell us something?

Also, Tavarnok, today called Tovarníky is definitely not absorbed by Nagy Tapolcsány (Topoľčany) anymore. Used to be a part of the town but now it's its own village again. Source: I'm from the area ;)

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AGAIN, I'm always having trouble reading Hungarian records

Julia Szent-Györgyi

Oh, sorry, utterly missed the census question. (Maybe because it's not yet attached as a source to anyone; do you want me to do that?)

1. 1. János Chudi smallholder, male, born 1800, RC, widower, mode of occupation farmer [added above:] owner, birthplace Elecske, Hungary, residency local, present over one month continuously, cannot read or write

2. his ["this one's"] son János Chudi, male, born 1832, RC, married, occupation ditto (farmer/owner), birthplace ditto (Elecske, Hungary), local, present, can read, ["no" crossed out in "can write" column]

3. his woman Mária Chudi, female, born 1835, RC, married [gender-specific term crossed out and replaced with generic one], occupation [ditto crossed out], birthplace Lukács, Hungary, local, present, can read

4. their ["these one's"] children Terez Chudi, female, born 1848, RC, single, birthplace Elecske, Hungary, local, present, can read

5. Filomena Chudi, female, 1859, RC, single, Elecske, local, present, can read

6. Mihál Chudi, male, 1861, RC, single, Elecske, local, present, cannot read or write ["no" written across both columns]

7. István Chudi, male, 1863 [ditto everything else from his brother above]

8. Mária Chudi, female, 1865 [ditto]

9. Anna Chudi, female, 1868 [ditto]

10. Josef Halmes, male, 1852, RC, single, mode of occupation servant with yearly wage, birthplace Elecske, local, present, can read ["no" crossed out in "write" column]

Livestock:

2 heavy-type mares

2 foals up to 3 years

2 cows

1 calf up to 3 years

1 pig

2 beehives

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Fun language trivia for the day: Hungarian has three words for "married": nős "with woman, woman-y", férjes (variation férjezett) "with husband (husbanded), husband-y", and házas "with house, house-y".

LuciaV

Thank you! So Josef Halmes was their servant? I'm gonna look him up and see how he was connected with the other Halmes people around this family.

You don't have to bother attaching the census, I can do that myself.

Also, does it say Terezia is the daughter of János jr. and Mária? (included in "their children") That must be an error for sure. First, doesn't make that much sense age-wise, and second, her baptism record clearly states her mother is Ilona.

Ah, two beehives, that's fun!

Julia Szent-Györgyi

The way the children are listed is a bit sloppy or lazy: "children of these" can technically refer to any of the already-mentioned people -- although to be fair to the census-taker, there isn't really a clear solution for listing minor siblings versus offspring, especially when the two fathers share a name. In any case, it's clear from the birthdates that Terezia is Filomena etc.'s aunt, not sister.