Was My Ancestor Born Out of Wedlock?
Hello ... in trying to find my 2nd great grandmother's birth record from 1860, I came across this record for my 2nd great uncle and need some help with translation. I believe my uncle, Josef Radimersky, was born to Josef Radimersky and Anna Benesova (my 3rd great grandparents) but based on the translation I was able to do myself, I think this record suggest that he was 'illegitimate'. There are some dates on the left hand side though and what appears to be record that the birth was legitimized. I'm curious to know what this record tells me about his parents, his birth and status, and what the dates on the left mean.
My 3rd great grandfather was a soldier and I think this record also includes the Czech words for "battalion," "cannon" and "shooting." I would love more information about what this record tells me about my great grandfather's military career as well.
Any help with translating this document is very much appreciated! Thank you in advance.
Respuestas
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@KamillaKovacs3 I see that you responded but I am not able to see the response. My apologies, but can you post it again? Thank you!!
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@Liz Chace This is what I understood:
Child: Josef Jan, born on 17 Jan, baptised on 19 Jan
The unmarried father, Josef Radiměrský, volunteered to make the following entry in the book, in the presence of two witnesses well-known to him (?):
Josef Radiměrský, Catholic, soldier/gunman (?) in the 1st battalion in Hradec Králové, legitimate son of Josef Radiměrský and his wife, the late Katarina née Doseděl from Sedliště
Mother: Anna Beneš(ová), Catholic, legitimate daughter of the late František Beneš, neighbor from here, no. 13, and of his wife, the late Anna née Rychtarik(ová) from Zánvaku(?), Vyso district, Pardubice region (?)
The birth was legitimised later on.
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Thank you so much, that is basically what I thought it said as well.
Do you know what the dates on the left hand side at the bottom are? I can read the dates themselves (I see 2/18/1856, 11/29/1860, 11/20/1860 and 5/11/1860) but not what they refer to. I also thought I read the words, "grandmother tried" (baba zkousena), but tried what?!
Also, when you say that the birth was legitimised later on, what does that mean exactly? How would it have been legitimised? Is it because the parents eventually married?
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to read my document and help me translate.
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@Liz Chace The dates are 18 Feb 1856, 2 Feb 1856, 20 Nov 8160 and 29 Nov 1860.
"Bába" is the midwife (her name is Anna Štanol) who helped at the birth.
What I understand is that the birth was legitimized with in Nov 1860 with No 9644 in the Czech Republic, as the child, Josef Jan, was the biological child of the unmarried Josef Radiměrský and the unmarried mother.
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Thanks! So would I be looking for a marriage certificate for the parents in November 1860? Is that what legitimized the birth? And can you read what the other dates are? I can see the dates themselves but can't read what is said about the dates. Are they perhaps other children that were born on those dates? Dates they tried to marry? Knowing what the dates refer to might help me search further.
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@Liz Chace As I can see only the record but not the headers, I can't see in which year Josef Jan was born - can you please check the baptism year at the header of the book?
The 1860 dates refer to the legitimization date. The parents are shown as unmarried, and I can't see any reference to their marriage or any other children.
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Thank you .. he was born January 17, 1853. Here is the link to the record. I found his on page 247 of 556.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-VT93-69?i=246
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@Liz Chace The marriage between Josef Jan's parents, Josef Radiměrský and Anna Beneš(ová), took place on 2 Feb 1856 and was registered on 18 Feb 1856 with reg. no. 54 in Jihlava (a city in the Czech Republic), based on which Josef Jana's birth was legitimized on 20 Nov 1860 in the Czech Republic, and the legitimization was registered in Hradec Králové(?) on 29 Nov 1860 with reg. no. 9644.
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@KamillaKovacs3 You are my hero today 😀 Thank you SO much! With that information, I was able to find the marriage record from Feb 1856: https://www.mza.cz/actapublica/matrika/detail/7522?image=216000010-000253-003373-000000-006479-000000-00-B05628-01090.jp2& - any additional info that you see that may be helpful is much appreciated.
I also believe I found Anna Benesova's death record from Oct. 1866 but am having trouble with some of the translation - again, I could use all the help I can get!
Now to find Josef and Anna's birth records!
Thanks again!
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1.These are the details of the marriage record in German:
"Marriage date: 2 Feb 1856
Groom: Josef Radiměrský, 39 years old, born on 25.06.1817 in Sedliště, local K.K. captive warden, leg. son of Josef Radiměrský, both from Sedletsch (Sedliště), in Böhmen (Bohemia), and of his wife, Katharina née (daughter of) Johann Došeděl
Bride: Anna Benesch, 38 years old, born on 4 Sep 1818 in Hohenmauth (today’s Vysoké Mýto), leg. daughter of Franz Benesch, resident in Hohenmauth No. 18 in Böhmen (Bohemia), and of his wife, Anna née (daughter of) Wenzl Richtařik [...] in Böhmen (Bohemia)
Witnesses: Ignaz Siegl senior and Ignaz Siegl junior"
2.Regarding Anna Benešová's death record in German, it would helpful to see the headers in the book. What I can understand without the headers is the following:
“Anna, wife of Josef Radiměrský, K.K. “Kraßenkontrollor” (? controller) in Ge Meseni/Mšené (?)
(Age) 47 years
(Cause of death/disease): dropsy (“Wassersucht”)
(Place): Vidlák coop.”
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Wow, this is great, thank you!! 🤗
Here is the link for the death certificate:
Thanks again!
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@Liz Chace The only addition (after seeing the headers) is that Anna died on 4 Oct and was buried on 6 Oct 1866. Vidlák and Stastny were the names of the priests.
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That is great, thank you so very much!
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Thanks so much Kamilla Kovacs for your expert help.
Betseylee Browning
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