Home› Ask a Question› Memories

A.I. Rules for memories

System
System admin
November 6 in Memories
This discussion was created from comments split from: I have been uploading AI generated historical portraits of my ancient ancestors.
0
«12»

Comments

  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    October 31

    @AmberML1 one for you please

    1
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    October 31

    Oh dear. Sorry but my sympathies are with the person who removes them. They are AI generated - they are not portraits of your ancestors.

    There might be some sort of case for using AI generated images in a report about something relating to your ancestors - for instance, if they worked in a cotton mill, you might use AI to create an image of a typical cotton mill interior - maybe… (Although how do you check it's accurate / authentic?) But those images should be clearly captioned as "Typical mill workers" or similar, not captioned as if they are your ancestors.

    13
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 1 edited November 1

    I completely agree, @Adrian Bruce1, but the memory upload policy https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/what-rules-apply-to-uploading-memories-to-familysearch-org doesn't actually (yet) say AI-generated images are not allowed.

    It's not entirely clear whether this is:

    . FamilySearch restricting these Memories, in which case there should have been an accompanying email which can be replied to for appeal purposes, or

    . another user deleting them altogether (is this even possible?), or in fact

    . them being untagged from profile(s) while remaining in the OP's Gallery.

    @Ian8662 can you clarify please?

    4
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 1

    @MandyShaw1 - yes, I did wonder what the FS policy said but considered that basic logic and accuracy should apply.

    Apart from anything, images of "typical" workers might be useful, even if AI generated, while I'm not sure if there are commercially available routines that can automatically detect AI images. Definitely needs thinking about to see if there is any role for non-specific, non-portrait AI images.

    4
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 1 edited November 1

    We don't know what the automated restriction algorithm does. I would guess that AI images may well have metadata indicating their source. Personally I'd say ban them altogether, honestly, especially as they won't have any real connection to any profile to which they are linked and therefore may cause problems if people start trying to match them against other family photos. People can always embed them in a PDF if the case is exceptional.

    7
  • Bonobo52
    Bonobo52 ✭
    November 1

    This reminds me of a home owner who was asked by her guest about the dozens of picture frames hanging on the wall. One-by-one, the home owner spake sweet memories of her parents, uncle so-and-so, great-grandpa this-and-that and cousin what's-her-name. Towards the end of the long discussion, they came to a frame that looked incredibly familiar to the guest. Upon further examination, the guest makes a comment, "This is the same photo and frame I just bought at the dollar store." The home owner decried, "yeah, that's auntie Bell. She's next to uncle Jay who I found at the Walmart."

    6
  • Gordon Collett
    Gordon Collett ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 1

    I'll add my vote for a complete ban on AI generated photorealistic illustrations of ancestors for whom there is no existing image. Genealogy is plagued enough with fakery and fraud without claiming fictitious images are portraits of ancestors.

    I also think that AI routines that take an existing photo and generate an idealized glamour shot should also not be used in genealogy. (I've seen some examples on YouTube of people running Greek statues through AI to create photo-realistic images. The results to not look like the statues, they do not look like real people, and they all have the same way over exaggerated and idealized facial features and musculature. They get really uninteresting very quickly.)

    I'm kind of OK, but not thrilled with colorization. Reasonable photo repair I'm fine with.

    7
  • Áine Ní Donnghaile
    Áine Ní Donnghaile ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 2

    I know of some generated images already in the tree, added by some one I helped with her research. I agree they have no place in an accurate family tree.

    5
  • KristinaCOLEMAN2
    KristinaCOLEMAN2 ✭
    November 2

    This is driving me nuts, why include a AI created image of a person who lived 500 years ago? Someone in my tree is also doing it - it is not a photo or painting of the person. It is AI. It is going to get harder to tell what is real and what is fake. The other issue I have is people upload an unregistered/AI generated coat of arms …

    6
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 3 edited November 3

    @KristinaCOLEMAN2 couldn't agree more - surely Memories should be specifically linked to the individual as a person (as the name suggests) - if the person lived too long ago for genuine memories, pictures, or written information about them to exist, then it's not the end of the world if they have no tagged Memories (and spending the time on Sources instead would do the overall Tree more good, anyway).

    2
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 3

    @MandyShaw1 Just as an aside…

    Re "… surely Memories should be specifically linked to the individual as a person (as the name suggests) - if the person lived too long ago for genuine memories, pictures, or written information about them to exist, then it's not the end of the world if they have no tagged Memories … "

    As a matter of detail, I use the Memories facility to hold formatted PDF documents that are "proof" statements. No, I don't remember people who died before the First World War (say) but (unless anyone knows better) it's the best way I know of creating a decently formatted document. (Not my idea by the way, but one I got from other Community stalwarts).

    2
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 3

    Makes sense. It's still very much specific to the individual, though.

    0
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 3

    "… specific to the individual…" Absolutely!

    0
  • Áine Ní Donnghaile
    Áine Ní Donnghaile ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 3

    I also use Memories for Proof Statements in either PDF or JPG format. Specific to an individual or a small family group.

    3
  • AmberML1
    AmberML1 ✭✭✭✭
    November 3

    @Ian8662 and @KristinaCOLEMAN2

    Thanks everyone for participating in this interesting discussion.

    In the current Upload Guidelines and Policies, there is no specific mention or prohibition of AI-generated content. The best it offers is "Photos, Documents and Audio Recordings may not be edited in such a way as to make them inaccurate, false, or misleading."

    I think we can all agree there is need for caution when it comes to AI-generated content.

    I will submit a request in the "Suggest an Idea" category….I think it would be good for the FamilySearch leaders to consider the uploading of AI-generated content.

    4
  • maryellenstevensbarnes1
    maryellenstevensbarnes1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 4 edited November 4

    Maybe the Upload Guidelines should also state something like "Please do not Upload AI-generated photos because they are not real people, living or dead."😋 Unless, of course, you have a Source that complies with generally accepted genealogical guidelines

    1
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 4

    @AmberML1 Would you consider having the policy advise against the non-individual-specific clutter of coats of arms etc., as also discussed here?

    1
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 4

    Re coats of arms: I apologise for shifting the topic but it's still slightly linked. I suspect that most people don't realise that in British heraldry, there is (almost) no such thing as a family coat of arms and that sites purporting to show you (even, sell you) the XYZ Family Coat of Arms are plain wrong.

    Coats of Arms are given to individuals - it so happens that the eldest son will often end up using his father's arms, but it's not certain and they shouldn't be used by younger children - and even less should they be used by someone with the same surname.

    The major, sort of exception, to the above is that Scottish crests can be be used by anyone with that surname - it is perfectly appropriate for me to use the Bruce crest, e.g. - but this only applies to the crest, not the rest of the arms.

    Strictly, I would be within my rights to remove so-called family arms from non-entitled profiles but (a) life's too short, (b) people probably don't know this and (c) I'm not a member of the College of Heralds who do police these things.

    3
  • AmberML1
    AmberML1 ✭✭✭✭
    November 4

    I sent the link for this entire post to the "Suggest an Idea"….I asked them to look over all the ideas mentioned. Because each of these ideas is important! Including the coat of arms.

    Thanks again, everyone, for sharing. And keep adding to this important discussion!

    3
  • BraydenGraves
    BraydenGraves ✭✭✭
    November 5 edited November 5

    "Apart from anything, images of "typical" workers might be useful, even if AI generated"

    I'm not sure I agree here. AI doesn't actually know anything, it algorithmically predicts what it deems to be the most likely result based on pattern recognition and nothing more. If you ask it to generate a Viking, it will give you the Hollywood version, because that's what it's been trained to expect. There would be even more issues trying to get an image to represent a specific region or stricter time period, as the resources for that specific request may be scarce. AI can't root out which sources are real or fake, because it has no concept of reality. You would be much better off finding historical photos or recreations by genuine historians. It's harder, but if the image isn't accurate, then what's the point?

    4
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 5

    @BraydenGraves - actually, I agree with what you say. My possible acceptance of "typical worker" images would be dependent on the researcher satisfying themselves of the validity of the image through other means of comparison, and not relying on AI to police its own product - which it doesn't.

    I was unwilling to be completely dogmatic about AI exclusion from the get-go but wouldn't object if FS decided on total exclusion

    1
  • Ian8662
    Ian8662 ✭
    November 5

    Thanks for all the comments.

    My original question was not about the propriety of AI images but about the pictures I uploaded being completely deleted by another user. Could we discuss this first? I would then be very happy to explain the reasons for using AI to create portrait of individuals who lived hundreds oc years ago.

    0
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 5 edited November 5
    https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/611322#Comment_611322

    Ian, to help with that, can you answer the question I asked you here

    https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/610980#Comment_610980

    please?

    It may also help if you post an example profile URL or PID, since the change log may contain useful evidence.

    2
  • mayimagpie
    mayimagpie ✭✭
    November 6

    Please never post those images anywhere. Posting AI images of people is antithetical to genealogy. We are focused on fact-finding, not creating a fantasy world for entertainment. Did you at least include a citation for the AI used to create the image?

    1
  • Alan E. Brown
    Alan E. Brown ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 6 edited November 6

    @Ian8662

    It's impossible for another user to delete pictures that you uploaded. What may have led you to think this happened is one of three possibilities:

    • A FamilySearch administrator deleted your pictures.
    • Another user detached the Memories from the person profile you had attached them to. In this case, there will be an entry in the change log for that profile. But the photo you uploaded will still be in your Memories Gallery.
    • If you're talking about a portrait, then any other user might have removed or replaced the portrait. Unfortunately, these actions create no entry in the change log for the affected person profile. But the associated Memory you uploaded will still be safely on your Memories Gallery
    4
  • Ian8662
    Ian8662 ✭
    November 9

    @Alan E. Brown@MandyShaw1

    So to clarify the situation, the pictures have been deleted from the portrait and the memories section of the person concerned. They remain in my family search gallery. The deletion is logged showing who deleted them and when. (I reached out to the user concerned and explained the thinking behind the portraits and invited any comments or suggestions on them. I did not receive a reply But the user continued to delete additional portraits. Interestingly before this happened, another user warned me that the user concerned has been deleting memories from our relatives without any explanation.)

    So again, my question is how is this happening? - I am unable to delete anyone else's memories.

    Thank you all for your assistance with this,

    Ian

    0
  • Alan E. Brown
    Alan E. Brown ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 9

    The memories are not being deleted, as is made clear by the fact that you still see those memories in your gallery.

    What is happening is that some of these memories are being detached from a person. That may seem like a deletion, since that memory will no longer appear on that person's Memories list, but the memory is still available, and could be tagged to that person again. Then it would appear in that person's Memories list again.

    2
  • Ian8662
    Ian8662 ✭
    November 15

    @Alan E. Brown thank you for explaining that the images are being detached from the person's record.

    @MandyShaw1@Adrian Bruce1 @Bonobo52@Gordon Collett @BraydenGraves @mayimagpie @AmberML1

    Thank you all for your comments regarding uploading AI created period portraits. It is understandable that some may hesitate to accept AI portraits in genealogy, since they can feel artificial or speculative. Yet it is worth remembering that many historical portraits were not exact likenesses either. As Giorgio Vasari observed, portraiture served “function, aesthetics and propaganda,” often shaped more by convention and patron demands than by strict fidelity to appearance. Despite this, it seems that there is generally no objection to using such portraits on FamilySearch, even though they may reflect idealization rather than reality.

    In this light, a carefully researched AI reconstruction—grounded in genealogical records, regional features, and period style—can stand alongside traditional portraits as part of the same interpretive tradition. When accompanied by a clear statement that they are AI created, AI portraits provide families with a historically informed visualization of ancestors who otherwise left no likeness, and in some respects offer greater accountability than many conventional portraits.

    0
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 16

    @Ian8662 - re "… AI portraits provide families with a historically informed visualization of ancestors…"

    And therein lies the problem. AI does not have a historically informed view of anything. There's just a lot of data that sits there tagged with various labels, and it's entirely up to the researcher to choose the right tags (prompts) - but since they don't know what tags / prompts are available, the task is difficult. Just think how AI came up with black American Founding Fathers…

    3
  • MandyShaw1
    MandyShaw1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    November 16

    @Ian8662

    Re 'it seems that there is generally no objection to using such portraits on FamilySearch'.

    I suspect that the situation is, rather, that the relevant FS policies haven't yet caught up with Nov 2025 technical possibilities.

    0
«12»
Clear
No Groups Found

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 44.7K Ask a Question
  • 3.6K General Questions
  • 598 FamilySearch Center
  • 6.8K Get Involved
  • 676 FamilySearch Account
  • 7K Family Tree
  • 5.5K Search
  • 1.1K Memories
  • 504 Other Languages
  • 66 Community News
  • Groups