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disputed death

Stephen12496
Stephen12496 ✭
August 21 edited August 21 in Family Tree

My problem is I have a family member who is very well researched on FamilySearch but his death year (only this is given), I believe, is incorrect. The man is called Benjamin Bolton, he had lived in Mellor, Ramsgreave and Blackburn, Lancashire. I can find, using the burial records at Blackburn, a Benjamin Bolton who died in 1865 but he was to old, and had the wrong parents.
I have a Newspaper cutting which shows his wife applying for a separation order, and getting it , in May 1866. Sometime after 1871 Benjamin's wife Agnes with some of her children went to America. I cannot find when Benjamin died or if he went to America, if he did I cannot find a record.
How should I record this on FamilySearch? I am certain that he did not die in 1865, other trees in other programs give the same date. The article of 1866 gives a date for their marriage which is correct and the number of Children is correct.
Should I/can I put this article onto familySearch and link it to Benjamin and Agnes, if so how.
I will be happy to give further information to any one.

Kind Regards

Stephen

0

Best Answer

  • RaniM
    RaniM ✭✭✭
    August 23 Answer ✓

    Hi @Stephen12496 You can upload the newspaper clipping to the memories tab of Benjamin Bolton's profile and can tag any individuals mentioned in the article. (There is a blue "Add memories button in the top lefthand of the memories tab, click it and follow the prompts to upload).

    You can also create a note under the collaborate tab laying out your findings just as you've done here, which very logically explains your reasoning for believing the 1865 date is incorrect. If you check the 'Alert Note' box, a banner will appear at the top of the profile alerting other contributors to read the note before making changes.

    In the vitals section you can list his death as "after 1866" with a brief explanation in the reason box, to deter others from adding the incorrect date, until such a time as you are able to locate the specific and correct date.

    If you would like some assistance with trying to locate Benjamin Bolton's death or movements after 1866, please provide his ID so that we can better help you.

    1

Answers

  • maryellenstevensbarnes1
    maryellenstevensbarnes1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    August 21

    Please give the marriage date, the correct parents names (if known) and a link or copy of the 1866 separation order

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  • Stephen12496
    Stephen12496 ✭
    August 23

    Thank you for the information I will follow up on the above suggestions.
    Below are the main details of Benjamin Bolton I would be great full if you could assist on his death and movements after 1866

    Benjamin Bolton LV4P-YZY

    Parents John Bolton1793 1861
    Mother Mary Ashton 1797 1876
    1821 Born
    1821March 4 Baptised Blackburn Parish Church
    1842 November 14Marriage to Agnes Ainsworth Blackburn Parish Church
    1860 April 4Benjamin Jailed for 3 months for wife beating. They did have two more children after this!
    1851 census Benjamin and Agnes living at Mellor
    1861 census Neither Benjamin or Agnes Found1871 census Only Agnes and Children living Rishton
    1866 May 23 Agnes gets a protection order (not separation order as I said above but they did at some point divorce) Reported in the Blackburn Standard for that date.
    soon after this Agnes went to America with some of her children.
    So I know nothing about Benjamin after 1866

    Kind Regards
    Stephen Smith

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  • RaniM
    RaniM ✭✭✭
    August 24

    Happy to help! I'm out and about today but when I'm back at my computer I'll do some digging and see what I can find for you.

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  • RaniM
    RaniM ✭✭✭
    August 26

    Hi Stephen, this one took some real digging. You may have seen me poking around, making some additions over the past couple of days. I believe I have found a couple of promising leads.

    Because Benjamin has been proving a bit hard to trace I began with the children to see if their records contained any crumbs to work back from. So there may be some crossover with what you already know but I think it's important to show the working.

    The couple doesn't appear to have been big on baptisms (only two, for John and William Henry) but all children were civilly registered. Civil records on the GRO index list mother's maiden name, so I've cross-referenced all the children born in the area between 1842 and 1874 with an Ainsworth mother, eliminated children that belonged to other Bolton/Ainsworth couples, and added the pertinent record details to the children under "Birth". You can use that information to find and add the correct Civil Records on FS if you so choose.

    You'll notice I added a daughter, Mary (1848-1849) which brings the total to 11, matching with what the article regarding the protection order states. Whilst Elizabeth Catherine's birth was registered in December of 1866, it's possible that she was in fact already born in May of that year, as a close search doesn't produce any other children to this couple. It was not uncommon for there to be, at times, a delay in registration.

    As searches for both Benjamin and Agnes in the 1861 census were fruitless, I instead used William Henry Bolton's details and I believe I have found the family in this record. The reason it wasn't coming up is because the couple are recorded as "Richard" and "Alice". Ordinarily I am vary wary of 'similar but different' records as too often they are incorrectly forced to fit a profile. But in this case I feel pretty confident.

    Here's why:

    1. I did close census searches in 1851 and 1871 and could not find corresponding records for a matching family.
    2. All the living children appear in this record exactly or within a year match.
    3. Notably, their residence is listed as Union Buildings. In August the preceding year the family were recorded living at 40 Union Buildings in their son, Adam's, burial record (1860-1860).

    Additionally, my experience of the English census transcripts is that they are heavy on transcription errors.

    I haven't seen the original document myself, but that would be next steps to a) check for an address number, which are often listed but not transcribed. and b) to see if the names of Alice and Richard are transcription errors or, it's possible you might have a a legitimate alias on your hands. It's plausible, given Benjamin's constant issues with money, that he was flying under the radar.

    Original copies can be viewed on Ancestry and, I believe, FindMyPast. If you don't have a subscription you can access these for free at most public libraries and there are also folks on here that will generously do a look up if you put out a request.

    The record itself is currently attached to the remains of a Frankensteined family that I started to unpick. The remains are stub ID's created off the record that would need to be merged into your family once (if) the record is confirmed.

    I could not find Benjamin in the 1871 census either. I also tried searching for "Richard" without luck. It's possible he's been mis-transcribed beyond search parameters, he was using another alias, or perhaps he was out drunk that night and the census taker missed him. Of course he may have died but I do believe he was still alive at the time as Agnes lists herself as married, not widowed or divorced.

    No record appears to exist for an English divorce, these were hard to come by at that time, particularly for less well off folks, so it's possible Agnes simply styled herself that way after immigrating. If they were no contact, she wouldn't have known he'd died. You'll notice I attached a couple of records for her and some of the children's immigration in 1872. It seems their son, Richard also relocated to the states, but separately. Son Thomas may have died previous to 1866 (to fit with the numbers in the article, but I could not find an exact match for a death. He was still living in the above 1861 census)

    There is also no record of Benjamin immigrating to the states. I believe he may possibly have died in 1874 and this is his indexed death record. There is no sign of him in the 1881 census and the record I linked is the best, actually exact, age match searching between 1871-1881. It is also geographically plausible. Unfortunately there is no corresponding burial record and I don't believe the full civil records are available without purchase (£3.00 for an unofficial Jpeg from the GRO). So knowing definitively is tricky. He seems to appear in newspapers for drunk and disorderly up until 1869 in and around Blackburn.

    I hope that's of some help to you in getting your research a little bit further along. Let me know if you would like anything clarified, and do let me know how you get on if you get hold of that original 1861 census record. Hopefully it's the fit I think it is!

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  • Stephen12496
    Stephen12496 ✭
    August 26 edited August 26

    Thankyou for your help on this. Benjamin is my great great great Uncle and normally I would not dig this deep a life but he has made me curious about him and his family. I follow your thinking on the 1861 census(attached) and it looks like that could be correct. But the next question is why did they give false(?) names!
    I have Agnes on the 1871 census living at Rishton and in 1872 moving with her family to America.
    Again as you say, there is only really that death 1874 Salford for Benjamin Bolton I have got the death certificate from the GRO and I do not think it is him. His age fits but his profession is given as baker, which is so far removed from what other records give for it to be unlikely.
    Like you, I can find no indication that he ever went to America. It is something I will keep digging away at.
    I have found baptism records for the three Adam Bolton’s, and that brings up another problem for the Adam Bolton who survived. On FamilySearch his birth is given as 8 December 1862, this date is given on his death certificate. However, I obtained his birth certificate from the GRO which gives his birth as 29 January 1862, on the other hand, his baptism record gives 25 January as his birthdate. The birth was registered on the 12 March 1862 and the baptism took place on the 2 April 1862. Therefore, I am inclined to go with the birth certificate. Being new on FamilySearch I don’t feel I should change the date already on. I will however put the records on the Sources and Memories with an explanation.
    Regards
    Stephen

    1
  • RaniM
    RaniM ✭✭✭
    August 28

    Happy to be of help. Though sorry not to have been able to add much you don't already know.

    Bravo on finding the baptisms for the three Adams, that's more than I was able. As far as the birth date for 1862 Adam, you should absolutely feel confident to make the change to the 29th January 1862. You may notice I flagged the inconstancy of birthdate and registration, but as I didn't have a concrete replacement, I left it as is. Rule of thumb, If you have conflicting birthdates, go with the one given at the time of birth. Often death and burial records can be a bit off as the informant is a secondary source and can be any number of steps removed from the individual in question. You've demonstrated how thorough you are in your research, and if you include that evidence or reasoning when making changes to profiles, your contributions are only going to be a benefit to the tree.

    Speaking of, that death record for a Benjamin Bolton in 1874 - with the information that he is a baker, you're right, that's definitely not him. The profession rang a bell for me and that individual is Benjamin Bolton (MDG9-KCT) married to Julia Gibson and living in (surprise surprise) Salford. I hadn't paid much attention to the census record I'd seen him in previously because his birthdate is constantly 1818 throughout his life. Another example of the informant not having the correct information.

    I don't see the 1861 census attached, I suspect it was removed. The forum rules are a little ambiguous on what original record images can be shared and what can't. But it essentially comes down to copyright, I think. Nevertheless, if you've seen the original and think it's a match that's what matters! If you'd like a second option you can message it to me directly (envelope icon top righthand of your screen), otherwise I think you can go ahead and attach the record to the family and merge in that duplicate family I linked previously. (I note you mentioned you're new to the platform, so if jumping into that many merges straight away feels daunting, let me know and I'm happy to take care of it).

    I was frustrated not to have been able to find more of use, so I had a bit more of a hunt today, and think I have found something quite significant! Over at the Lancashire Archives I found a record of Recognizance dated 16 Jul 1779 description as follows:

    Recognizance for Benjamin Bolton of Ramsgreave, weaver, to abide by and perform such orders as shall be made concerning the **** child of Elizabeth Thornley of Ramsgreave, singlewoman

    Sureties: Richard Harwood of Ramageave, weaver and William Bolton of Samlesbury, weaver

    From the 1851 census we know your Benjamin was from Ramsgreave and had worked as a weaver. I like this for a match.

    I believe the child in question is Barbara Thornley (9K6F-15P) daughter of Betsy Thornley. There were only three Thornley children registered without mother's maiden name (indicative of possible illegitimacy) between 1866-1879, I was able to eliminate the two boys and Barbara was left. I've furnished her profile and attached her relationship to Benjamin so you can peruse as you like.

    Which brings me back to the question of his death. I don't want to send you chasing after every death record for a Benjamin Bolton that has a passing resemblance, But there is possibly maybe a match in this record for Benjamin Bolton, died 1886, aged 69, Blackburn. This makes his estimated birthdate 1817, four years older, but as we've established ages at death are somewhat flexible. so maybe…

    It does leave the question of where on earth he was on the 1871 and 1881 census nights (not with the Thornleys, I checked). Maybe he really was fond of an alias… He seems to have had a fair amount of run ins with the law or maybe he owed people money…

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  • Stephen12496
    Stephen12496 ✭
    August 28

    Away for a week or so I will get back to you

    Stephen

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