Help to find death record for my great grandfather.
Hi
My great grandfather's name was Alfred Edgar Jewson and so far I have been unable to find a death record for him anywhere.
Parents: Samuel Bellman Jewson and Mary Ann Craven.
Birth Registered on GRO: QM 1847 King's Lynn, Norfolk.
Marriage Certificate: 4 Oct 1868 - Aged 20; Occupation: Draper; Spouse: Amelia Caroline Wearing.
Birth certificate for my grandmother shows Alfred and Amelia as parents.
Census data information up to 1891 all appears to fit with known facts but anything after that does not.
Any help would be appreciated.
Baz
Answers
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Alfred's FS Tree Profile may be helpful to anyone trying to assist.
You may want to post in the group for England Research where members familiar with the area and available records may be able to assist.
Best of luck.
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@Baz54 I am usually hesitant to grab on to Ancestry Trees, but I did find one that was very well done and it had a Death Index which shows….
Name
Alfred Jewson
Death Age
89
Birth Date
abt 1851
Registration Date
Apr 1940
Registration Quarter
Apr-May-Jun
Registration District
Bromley
Inferred County
Kent
Volume
2a
Page
1539
The tree that I used shows Alfred as having married twice, once to Amelia Wearing and second to Mary Anger. I have included in his profile for you and others to look over. But…. needs some major verification as it should be considered a 'Working Draft'
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The GRO reference for that 1940 death
Name:
Age at Death (in years):
JEWSON, ALFRED
89
GRO Reference:1940 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 1539
Someone who lived until 1940 will be in the 1939 Register, usually with good detail to confirm or refute a connection.
In the 1939 register, Alfred Jewson, in Bromley, Kent, is listed as a retired butler, widower, born 14 Dec 1850. He seems to be living with 3 unmarried, elderly, sisters or other Jewson relatives.
That occupation makes me raise an eyebrow, since Alfred was a stationer's warehouseman in 1891, and a draper in 1881.
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As is always the case nothing is ever simple…. There is another Alfred Jewson [presently identified as Alfred Edgar Jewson] that I think has gotten a child or two [Edith an/or Ethel] mixed up with the Kings Lynn, Alfred in question. Might take another round of coffee to sort it out…
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The Alfred Jewson referenced above (at Bromley and shown born 14 Dec 1850 in the 1939 National Register and died Bromley in 1940) appears to be the plain Alfred Jewson whose birth was registered at Holbeach R.D. (includes part of Norfolk but mainly Lincolnshire) in December 1850 Quarter.
The wife of "your" Alfred Jewson, Amelia Caroline, died at Poplar in 1890 and he is the only match for a marriage in 1894 at St Saviour Southwark to Mary Hunter. The couple are found at St George the Martyr, Middlesex in the 1901 census (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9DP-DM5?lang=en) Arthur with a Kings Lynn, Norfolk birthplace, but age 47 (should be born 1847). Their 1911 census record is at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGJ-ZP3?lang=en, although again his age does not match his 1847 birth. Mary is shown as a widow in the 1921 census at Finsbury, Middlesex (at Find My Past), although the word "Widow" has been crossed through and replaced by "Head".
I cannot identify a death of Alfred at FreeBMD**, but it appears Mary's death is the one registered at Finsbury in 1938, age 77.
** There is a death recorded at Croydon in 1916, but shows no middle name and age as 64.
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@Paul W I have looked at both Alfred George Jewson and Alfred Edgar Jewson [Each having a spouse, Amelia]. The later, as when I last left it, was the husband of Amelia Caroline [Death ca 1890]. I could use your help to understand the records I have reviewed/attached…
I can't view the full records so I am working a bit 'blind' here, but I think the 1911 census record for Alfred Edgar shows his birth as 14 Dec 1850, Kings Lynn and the 1939 census record for Alfred George also shows 14 Dec 1850. I've got something cross-wise here. Can you lend a hand? Thanks!0 -
You appear to have all the detail recorded on the profile for Alfred George Jewson. I can't find the middle name anywhere, although I have just read your comment about it being on his son Frederick's marriage banns record. Only his birth record and 1939 National Register will show his actual birthdate, which indeed appears to be 14 Dec 1850.
As for Alfred Edgar, you would have to have a copy of his birth certificate to confirm the date, which could be at any time in late 1847 (at King's Lynn). Again, all the available detail appears to be attached to his Family Tree profile. Perhaps your belief that Alfred Edgar also had a 14 Dec 1850 birth recorded is causing the confusion.
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When using Ancestry to view the indexed info for 1911 Census Record currently attached to Alfred Edgar this is what I'm seeing. Unfortunately, I can't see the original to make sense of the indexed birth date which is also 14 Dec 1850. Hence, my confusion. Everything else seems 'right'…
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The added "Facts associated with citation" do not relate directly to the census. I don't know how / why / by whom the birth details have been inputted here, but I have the original document open as I write and that just has ages, relationships and occupations recorded. Alfred's age should be shown as 63, based on his Dec 1847 Quarter Kings Lynn registered birth, which would usually mean he was born between late September and December 1847. I find it very common for ages to be adrift in census returns, usually being lower than the true figure.
The extra detail has somehow been added by an Ancestry user based on the detail for Alfred (George) Jewson. This puts me in mind of the Find A Grave records that show speculative information that has no relationship to what appears on the individual's headstone.
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@Mark McKenzie_1 and @Paul W - I interpret the "Facts associated with citation" as these are the facts on that person's profile on the Ancestry tree, which have the 1911 linked. The census will tend to be linked to the birth fact simply because it can be used to justify the details in the birth - however broad they may be. It doesn't mean that all the details of the birth fact can be seen on the 1911 as other sources may be linked to the birth. (Whether those other sources are linked or are accurate is another matter…)
As Paul advises, the 1911 has no exact birth date, but the 1939 does.
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Hi Baz,
Looks like Alfred Edgar Jewson didn’t vanish—he just outlived everyone’s expectations! The deep dive shows he likely died in 1940 in Bromley, Kent, aged around 93. Earlier records had him as a gardener and later a butler in Bromley. He’s probably in the 1939 Register and there might even be a probate entry for him in 1940 or 1941. I’d definitely order the 1940 death cert from the GRO to confirm—might even list a child as informant. Hope this helps close that long-standing mystery!
FamilySearch https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/collection/2285341
Ancestry
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/alfred-edgar-jewson-24-zd9s8d
Kent OPC Parish Records
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/PRTranscripts/BromleyHTChrC.html
YourRoots – England/Kent Search
https://yourroots.com/search-record/country0 -
Whilst the individual you suggest is a very close match to the one (Alfred Edgar Jewson) in question, the comments above show there is no connection between him and the Alfred (George) Jewson, who died at Bromley in 1940 and is found there in the 1939 National Register. The latter was born in Lincolnshire in 1850, whereas Alfred Edgar Jewson was born at Kings Lynn, Norfolk in 1847. Unfortunately, the errors in his recorded age in 1901 and 1911 census returns has led an Ancestry user to confuse the two individuals and an incorrect 14 Dec 1850 birth has been suggested for Alfred Edgar, as illustrated above. As explained, this date of birth does not appear in the original 1911 census document.
I find I spend a disproportionate amount of my time spent - working on FamilySearch's Family Tree - in dealing with similar cases of mistaken identity: some of which are based on ridiculous assumptions that two individuals must be the same person, just because their names and ages are a fairly close match. However, in this example, I can see how easy it would be to confuse the pair - especially when Alfred Edgar has not helped matters himself by providing a wrong age in official documents on more than one occasion!
In summary, the sad fact is that in spite of all our efforts here, we appear to have been unable to provide any real help to @Baz54 in the quest to find Alfred Edgar Jewson's death record.
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@Paul W Thanks for taking the time to check out the original for me. Usually that's something I'd do to see what may have NOT been transcribed. A strange decision by Ancestry to do this sort of thing as the 'Associated Facts' are Ancestry Tree derived and not in the record. There are plenty of Ancestry trees with the two individuals with cross-wise info/sources so that's where the birth date probably crept in… Much appreciate the help to sort out these two individuals
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@Mark McKenzie_1 - I can't agree that it's a strange thing for Ancestry to associate those facts with the 1911. The 1911 clearly provided evidence for the name in the Ancestry tree, so an Ancestry user accepted the suggestion to link it to the name. The Residence clearly comes from the 1911. The 1911 will (I think) link to the marriage because the 1911 presumably gives the name of his wife. As for the birth details, the 1911 will have given an approximate year and location - hence it too is linked. The fact that the approximate year has been replaced in the tree by an exact date probably later on, is fine - presumably no-one removed the link to the 1911, and why should they, as it's a fall back.
The whole associated fact business in the Ancestry tree, is just the same as attaching a source and tagging it in Family Search. With all the potential issues of people updating values and never altering the association with a source record - if there even is one...
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@Adrian Bruce1 I had to take a look at my Ancestry Tree and sure enough there are numerous Associated Facts included in Census records I've attached to individuals. Wasn't aware that they were even there or that others viewing the census record might be seeing them. Learned something here… So Thanks [Apologies for drifting 'off-topic']
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Firstly, thank you to all who have contributed to trying to find my great grandfather’s death date, also apologies for not replying sooner, have been digging deeper and checking facts.
The following link shows more detailed information regarding his birth, so I really think it is safe to say he was born in 1847.
http://tinstaafl.co.uk/nbp/Church_Pages/kings_lynn_prims.html#1845
The following links shows information regarding Mary Anne Anger’s birth and puts it at 1861.https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~billdeverell/genealogy/Tree%20of%20Jenny/fam11610.html
If Alfred did marry Mary Anne Hunter [Anger that was] then I have checked the following information for them:
1901 Census – Address 77 Duncan Buildings
Alfred; 47 and Mary; 38 : Should be 54 and 40
But we all know how ages can be wrong, especially if maybe one of the children answered the door to the Enumerator!
There are 3 step children surname of Hunter and Arthur aged 6; Beatrice aged 3; Olive aged 1 all Surname of Jewson.
1911 Census – Address 5 Wilmington Place
Alfred’s age is still adrift, but others are roughly 10 years older. Plus step children no longer at home.Electoral List Addresses for Alfred Jewson:
1898-1902 77 Duncan Buildings
1907 10 Wilmington Place [from St Helena Place] but
1906-1913 5 Wilmington Place
1915 45 St Helena Street
So far mostly fits with census info.The following information that a lot of people seem to have taken as relating to the Jewson’s is very confusing/misleading to say the least:
London England School Admissions and Discharges:
Birth dates fit children, but address of parent, namely Alfred Jewson is listed as 35 East Street where as 1901 Census address has everybody living at 77 Duncan Buildings.
1915 Army Records for son of Alfred and Mary: Arthur Edgar Jewson - These records have Mother as Mary E Jewson – not Mary A, she has actually signed Mary E Jewson on receipt for War Medal. Also does say Mary Elizabeth Jewson on one record.
Father's information given as Alfred Jewson, address 13 Chapel Row, which has been crossed out and his mother’s details put instead.Electoral List 1915 – Two Entries. Alfred Jewson at 45 St Helena Street [as per first list] and Alfred Jewson at 13 Chapel Row [as per above Army record].
Conclusion seems to me is that the Arthur Edgar Jewson who died in the war was not the son of Alfred Jewson and Mary Anne Anger/Hunter mentioned on both the 1901 and 1911 census.
Also as I couldn’t find much for Alfred Edgar Jewson after 1915 I looked for deaths around that time and actually purchased a death certificate for Alfred Jewson who died 9th June 1916. Turns out to be Alfred Jewson of 13 Chapel Row, who died aged 64 in Holborn Workhouse – hence his details being crossed out on the boy’s Army record. He was also a printer [as was my great grandfather!]
1921 Census
Details are for Mary E Jewson; Beatrice L Jewson [daughter] and John Halfacre [grandson] of 22 Little Northampton Street.There are records linking both Beatrice and Olive to 22 Little Northampton Street, and for Olive's marriage to John Halfacre, the birth of their son and her death in 1920.
Further GRO research has thrown up the following records:
Arthur Jewson born 1895 Mother’s Maiden Name: Hunter
Beatrice May Jewson born 1897 Mother’s Maiden Name: SMITH [Not Beatrice L as in 1921 census]
Olive Jewson born 1900 Mother’s Maiden Name: AngerApologies for the length of this reply and I hope the above makes sense, but as I said it is all confusing and misleading and I still don’t know when my great grandfather died! 😕
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