Janet,

I only see Mathias:

22 June 1827 born

23 June bapt

House No. 3 Dubne

Child: Mathias (Matvij)

Father: Ivan Kowalicz, village elder

Mother: Maria, dau of Pantelejmon Talpasz of Slotwiny village.

Godparents: Vasyl' Blasczak & Maria Dubnianski.

Tom Peters

Janet:

Go to this website as well for records of Dubne and Slotwiny:

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/search.php

When you get to this page, do a CTRL F and type in Dubne or Slotwiny. Click the links on the left hand side. Click on the first image. Use the arrows at the bottom of the screen to navigate forward and backwards. Click the download arrow on the left hand margin to download the images of interest.

Tom

The surname Dubianski/Dubnianski are sometimes interchangeable. Yours appears to be Dubianski. I would go with that.

Janet,

You apparently found the original images on microfilm via familysearch. I copied these as well years ago. The online records are the so called bishop's duplicates. There may be a gap in these. The records you are viewing online are from the Polish State Archive in Przemysl.

To answer your question re the marriage of Joannes Kowalicz, you need to remember to go back to the baptism of your Mathias. His mother is Maria, dau of Pantelemon Talpasz of Slotwiny. Their marriage will be found in the Greek Catholic records of Slotwiny. Of course, I went to the website in Przemysl and view the records of Slotwiny. There is a gap in their marriage records between 1821 and 1838! Since the earliest child born to John Kowalicz and Maria Talpasz is Maria born 1825 in Dubne, I can only assume that they married just before this year in Slotwiny. Their marriage alas is lost.

Here is the birth of Maria Talpasz:

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=142&cd=0&ser=0&syg=7370

Image 41/412

9 April 1788 baptized

Maria

Greek Catholic, female, legitimate

Father: Patelejmon Talpasz

Mother: Eva

Godparents: Josephus Huynak & Maria Smetana

Slotwiny Greek Catholic Church Records

This indicates that she was a bit older when she married John Kowalicz. Also explains why only 3 children.

You need to search the deaths of Dubne 1829-1850. You will find the deaths of John Kowalicz, his wife, and his father.

But if you search for the birth of Joannes Kowalicz, you will not find him in the sense that you think.

When you are doing Carpatho-Rusyn research and you are seeking the birth of your ancestor and you believe he was born in a certain year and that there are no indications in the records that he came from another village, you have to assume he is there and you are not "seeing" him.

Sounds very cryptic, I know.

What do we know? We know that your ancestral couple lived in Dubne in House No. 3. The 3 kids baptized in House No. 3. The parents died in House No. 3. Does this mean that Joannes Kowalicz was born in House No. 3? The answer is no. If he is the oldest male in the line, he usually inherits the homestead. Everyone else has to scramble for new housing when they marry. When a man marries, he might live with his bride's parents and inherit. This was not the case here. He might have inherited from an earlier generation or he simply might live with another family as a farm helper. This is all background that you need to know.

It becomes important to study who lives in which houses.

If you look for a Joannes born ca 188-1895 or so, you will come up with some possibilities for his birth. His death age will narrow things down.

Now sometimes when there are too many people in the village with a surname, they will adopt the name of the farm that they live on or sometimes a nickname. Your Joannes Kowalicz was probably born under a different name.

Here is what I think happened:

10 Jan 1792 House No. 7 Dubne: Joannes

Father: Wanio (Joannes) Dubianski

Mother: Weva Gromosz(ka)

3 May 1796 House 8 Dubne: Joseph

Father: Wanio (Joannes) Kowal

Mother: Eva Gromosz of Jastrebik

23 Feb 1800 House No. 8: Anna

Father: Joannes Kowal, scultetus (village elder)

Mother: Eva Gromosz, dau of Ivan Gromosz of Jastrebik

27 Mar 1802 House No. 5 Joseph

Father: Joannes Kowalicz, scultetus

Mother: Eva Gromosz, dau of the scultetus in Jastrebik

11 Oct 1803: Anton

Joannes Kowalicz, Scultetus

Mother: Eva Gromosz, dau of Ivan Gromosz, scultetus in Jastrebik

You will see in the later records that Anton Kowalicz lived for a bit in House No. 3 Dubne.

Therefore my conclusion is the Joannes born in 1792 above in your direct ancestor.

You might consider taking all of the entries for Dubne and putting them on an Excel spreadsheet. You would then be able to sort them every way. I have done this for villages in the Carpathians with excellent results.

If you cannot find the death images for Dubne, just let me know. When you are working with these images, keep in mind they will come in small batches: Leluchow birth, marr, deaths 1790-1800 followed by Dubne, bmd 1790-1800, etc. You have to look at the top of the page in the given sequence. It will give the parish name: Leluchow and follow this by pago Dubne (village Dubne).

Sorry for the length but entirely necessary.

Right now, I am of the opinion that the entry that you found for Anastasia in 1816 is his father's child. The father of Ivan Kowalicz was also Ivan Kowalicz and he lived to a very old age and died also in House No. 3. One of the keys when doing this type of research is to trace all of these children, then look for the deaths of their mother. Almost immediately, the male will marry as he needs someone to care for any younger children and for someone to prepare his meals, etc. You can easily have more than one person in the village with the exact given and surname both having children at the same time, etc. You have to try to sort them all out. Not easy but worth the time to get it as right as you can. Easy to make mistakes.

Yes, that would be my assumption.

Further news: Death of Ewa Gromosz Kowalicz

29 Aug 1813 in House No. 8

Ewa, wife of Joannes Kowalicz, Greek Catholic, female, age 35, natural causes

This would give a birthdate of 1778 in Jasztrebik

Joannes Kowalicz, born ca 1765

Joannes then remarries in 1814 of the widow Maria Kopcza (nee Talpasz).

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=142&cd=0&ser=0&syg=7370

scan 199/435

You could eventually look at this set of records:

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=142&cd=0&ser=0&syg=7409

Look at the earliest baptisms for children of Joannes Gromosz, scultetus.

Hi Janet,

I believe you are correct in your assumption that the 1814 marriage is your Joannes Kowalicz marrying Marla Talpasz. She is listed as Maria Kopczania (Kopcza). The rest of the name is a female variant of the surname Kopcza.

It appears that the Dubne records online are duplicates and are incomplete. Many years ago I copied many of the records od Dubne.

The one you need is attached.

Your Joannes Kowalicz is listed on the left side bottom entry in House No. 3. 89 years of age.

His wife on the right side of the page in House No. 3. 65 years of age.

Ages at death are usually incorrect. Usually overstated.