Help finding an ancestor, William Morgan L9HS-D45 b. 1796 -1852 Henllan Independent, Henllan Amgoed,
William Morgan supposedly md. Mary Taggart 1826. She was b. 1802 in Antrim, Ireland and two sons were b. in Ireland per 1850 census. I cannot find them on an immigration record, but I did find Williams will in Indiana. They both d. 1852. I do not know if they were Quakers or Baptists. I have attached the documents found on William's page. No parents were listed on the birth/baptism document. I would like to know if this is truly our William Morgan who d. 1852 in Indiana, and if so, who are his parents in Wales? Thank you for your help.
Answers
-
I just found a John Taggart KHZ8-218 who could be a brother to William's wife, Mary Taggart. John is buried in the same cemetery as William & Mary in Sand Creek Cemetery, Morgan County, Indiana. He was b. Monaghan, Ireland & md. there. Does this look like a match for family? Hope so!
0 -
That John Taggart is absolutely a prospect to investigate more. John and Mary were supposedly born in different counties but the fact that you get two people with the same surname born in Ireland ending up in the same part of Indiana of the right age to be siblings is very encouraging. I'd start by finding the John Taggart family in the 1850 census to see if they have more children than those with them in the 1860 census. If any of those children were born in Ireland then an approximate time of immigration can be calculated.
0 -
One of the first things I would want to discover about William Morgan is whether that baptism record really left out the parents names. Some of the records on Findmypast are incomplete like this one because they got the index from another organization. One indication of this is the fact that an image is not linked to the transcript/index information. If you scroll down on that index page you can usually see who Findmypast got the index/transcript data from. In the case of William Morgan baptised in 1796 the data came from FamilySearch.
When you find the same entry on FamilySearch be sure to open the details so you can see the source information as shown here:
The GS Film number can be found in the FamilySearch Catalog. The RG4 2516 number is the first part of the original reference number used by the National Archives in England. It will help you find the correct part of the film to search on.
An easier alternative since this is a pre-1837 nonconformist register is to look for William Morgan 1796 on Findmypast in their collection titled England & Wales Non-Conformist Births and Baptisms which can be found under their link to A-Z of record sets button or in this case clicking the link included above.
Most record sets have their own little quirks so you may need to look at several pages before and after the one where your person is named to get the context of the information there. Going to the first few pages especially can be very enlightening. The Welsh farm names are almost like a social security number for specifying the person and family that an individual belongs to. The farm names are almost never included in the index or transcript so read his christening very carefully to find if that detail was included. If the farm name is included it will help with additional searches in the future.
0 -
The 1850 census lists a John Taggart as a servant in PA. age 50.
0 -
Thank you for your suggestions. The link for the England & Wales non conformist record does not work, please resend. I went to Findmypast & did a search but could not find that collection.
0 -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9LM-39QT-C?i=368&cat=74452 Is this the right record to be in? I'm not finding William in 1796. Thank you for your help.
0 -
You are in the correct digital folder but not in the correct section. There are black pages that start and end each section (called title boards) or chapel record. You should be looking at items 6 & 7 according to the FamilySearch Catalog. Unfortunately, the title board are not identified with the item numbers in this case. You can use the RG4 number for the chapel record you need to get to the correct part of the folder. The image earlier in this thread showed that the number you need to look for is RG4 2516. That should be shown on one of the title boards so you know where to start looking page by page. You can click on the link in the image viewer as shown in the image below to scan for those title pages.
0 -
Unfortunately, it says this can only be viewed at a Family History Center. Someone has entered William's parents as Richard Morgan & Catherine Clark without providing a source. I am assuming you have seen William's record, are these the parents that are listed? Thank you for your help.
0 -
This link should take you to the index page on Findmypast https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA/RG4/BAP/1217710 and from there you should be able to view the image.
0 -
That is a paid subscription so I was able to view it through the regular Findmypast https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=TNA%2FRG4%2F3771%2F0%2F0018&parentid=TNA%2FRG4%2FBAP%2F1217710. Is this what you found also - no parents listed? He belonged to the Congregational Church then, correct? What do you suggest next to do next to find his parents? Why do you think they weren't listed? Thank you for your help.
0 -
That seems to be the image you need. Yes, Congregational church. Before you move on to other searches this document and then the record as a whole needs to be evaluated. The first thing to make note of is the farm name in his christening record. That may be the key to identifying the parents names. I don't remember seeing no parents mentioned like what you have in this chapel register but I think that can be worked around.
By going page by page to the beginning of this chapel register you will see that the names of parents are seldom if ever included. At the start of the register you will often find some clues about how the record was made. That will be important to read. I would look to see if any other Morgan children from that same farm were recorded. Once that is done then other tasks can be lined out for learning about the parents. Let us know what you figure out for the farm name In William Morgan's baptism record.
0 -
Are many of the first entries Burials? I found about 16 Morgan's before reaching William's entry. There are some Morgan's from Langan Parish, but I don't see any with the same Farm name. The spelling is hard to make out - Blaenwemddu is the best I can do. What is the correct spelling? How do you tell when Burial records end & birth records begin? Thank you for your help.
0 -
I didn't look at many of the early entries but what I saw looked like they are mostly christening/baptism records. The entry for William Morgan looks like the farm name is Blaenwernddu. That seems pretty close to what you should use for a standard spelling although there was no such thing. You will find a few variations on that as you do more research. I would want to find that place on a map if possible and also check to see what family lived there at the time of the 1841 census. William Morgan's family could still be there.
Normally the burial and birth records are identified. You will probably want to learn a little more about the Congregational chapel and denomination at Henllan. According to the FamilySearch catalog entry for these chapel records the burials go up to 1829 and baptisms only go up to 1826. The actual images will need to be viewed to sort this out and verify which events are recorded where.
0 -
The National Library of Wales has a resource titled Places of Wales that is excellent for finding details about the location and extent a farm. Spellings can be a little problem so be willing to try variant spellings. https://places.library.wales/
0 -
Thank you for your reply & the spelling. Unfortunately, William Morgan is in the States by 1831 when a daughter was born. His first two children were supposedly b. in Ireland, so that's why I was hoping to find his parents on the Baptism records because they would perhaps be in the census. I will try and find the Farm on a map. I did look earlier, but will try again. I also tried place names in Genuki but didn't see it. Do they have a list of Farm names of that county listed somewhere? Thank you.
0 -
Using the web link above I've been able to find Blaenwernddu on their map. It was not far from the chapel.
0 -
Thank you for the map & the link! It's exciting to see the Farm & the Congregational Chapel. Why were there 11 listings on the map for Blaenwernddu? Is Henllan Amgoed & Langan both Parishes? Do the Farms have records like the Norwegian's? If so, how do I find them? Thank you.
0 -
https://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/6306/details/henllan-amgoed-congregational-chapel Is this the best information for the Chapel? Thank you.
0 -
There is a Richard Morgan listed as one of the Ministers..."Richard Morgan (1713-1805), originally from Ystradgynlais, preached here with a view on Christmas Day 1768, and became the minister in the following year. The task before him was enormous. He preached at Henllan twice a month and at daughter churches the other two Sundays. But still he managed to set up Sunday Schools across the area, and trained up many young preachers to serve in the churches. Hanes Eglwysi Annibynnol Cymru records of his ministry: 'Through the Lord's blessing on his endless industry and that of his supporters the church grew in numbers, knowledge and religious influence.' Under his leadership, the chapel was pulled down and enlarged once again. This was in 1777. In spite of his great responsibilities at Henllan and in the other churches planted from it, he also found the time and energy to serve among the English speaking population of Pembroke."
0 -
Also a Thomas Morgan listed as one of the Ministers of Henllan Amgoed "After a gap of three years with no minister Thomas Morgan (1720-1799) was invited to minister here straight from Carmarthen College in 1746, serving for fourteen years. He was originally from Duffryn Uchaf near Groeswen in Glamorgan, where he attended Watford Chapel after beIng converted through the preaching of Howel Harris. For a number of years he associated with the Methodists, becoming known to the leaders of that revival movement. However, later he broke with them and became an Independent, receiving theological training at Carmarthen prior to the invitation to Henllan. In 1748 Lewis Phillips (1700-1768) was appointed to share the ministry with him, and for the last few years of his time here Thomas Morgan lived at Laugharne, some distance away, serving the church there also, leaving his collaborator the bulk of the pastoral care at Henllan. In 1760 Thomas Morgan left Wales to serve in Delph, Saddleworth in Yorkshire, his departure from Henllan, and from his native Wales being a very emotional occasion for him. Sadly, it seems that the principal reason for his leaving was the lack of adequate financial support from the churches he served! He would spend three years at Delph before moving to the Old Chapel, Morley, just south of Leeds. There were several occasions when he received invitations to return to Wales, including one in 1766 from Henllan, six years after his initial departure, but he declined them all. He eventually served at Morley for more than 30 years until paralysis forced his retirement in 1794. One contemporary writer said of him that he was 'able, popular, upright and useful', while another: 'his demeanour (was) the most reverend and dignified I ever beheld.' He died in 1799 aged 80."
0 -
http://daibach-welldigger.blogspot.com/2017/04/henllan-and-her-ministers.html This is the link I was using for Thomas & Richard Morgan listed above.
0 -
In Pedigree Resource File, a cousin also had posted that William md. Mary Taggart 3 April 1826 in Wales, York, UK. A source that was used is the IGI. The Family Bible mentioned is from a much later generation & does not contain William Morgan information. Where is Wales, York, UK? Thank you for your help.
0 -
Coflein is an excellent site but is only part of the story in the history of a chapel. A chapel history will often provide more details especially names and dates and places. Some of the chapel histories are in Welsh but some of those have been translated and for the ones that aren't translated you can still pick out a lot of information.
0 -
Thank you for your reply. How do I access the Chapel histories for Henllan Amgoed and the Farm records for Blaenwernddu?
0 -
The four volume history, Hanes Eglwysi Annibynnol Cymru (History of the Independent Churches in Wales) has some indexes at https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ChurchHistory/Indchapels which is my favorite starting point.
The actual images of the books are available on Ancestry.
0 -
Good morning. Thank for this great link. I found that a William Morgan is listed in V. 2 p. 348 but the only link for Henllan is V. 3 which does have other Morgan's listed. How do I access Ancestry.com's images of the books for the Church records? I am not seeing a category where I can type in the title of the book nor I'm not seeing the books listed in the Welsh records. Thank you so much for your help!
0 -
I can't find it now either so try https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Hanes1 which includes the transcribed pages for Henllan Amgoed and translations.
0 -
It only has transcribed for V. 3 & William Morgan was listed in V. 2 p. 348. Thank you for your help.
0 -
You will want to look at this carefully to be sure it is the correct William Morgan.
0 -
Last night I typed the info for William Morgan into google translate & I do not think that he is the right one. Fascinating language though! I really feel like William is at a stand still until I can locate the marriage license between he & Mary Taggart. That may give a clue for him. Are you still available to help me find their marriage? I so appreciate all the time you have shared to research William - very interesting all of the records available for Wales & I would sure like to find his ancestors there. Thank you, Carolyn
0