Translation help
I would appreciate any translation help for the death record on the top
I think it's record #17? The name of the deceased is: Maria Amalia Di Stasio
What I'd like to know is if there's any reference to a previous marriage for
Maria Amalia Di Stasio?
I can't figure out how to include the link to the di.antennati site - so I made a copy of the death record.
Thank you for any assistance,
Mimi
Comments
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Montefalcone di Val Fortore, 3 Apr 1932 ...
at 3:15am today, in the house at Via Fontana, 26, died Maria Amalia Di Stasio, age 71, housewife, resident in Montefalcone, born in Montefalcone,
daughter of the late Alfonso, farmer, resident in Montefalcone during his lifteime, and of Filomena D'Onofrio, farmer, resident in Montefalcone during her lifteime
widow of Nicola Maria Antonio Petrillo.
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Thank you Joseph!
This is helpful, but also a little disappointing.
I believe that Nicola Petrillo was Maria Amalia's second husband. I believe she was also Nicola's
second wife. But? I can't prove my (educated? lol!) suspicions.
I have (many) verifications that Maria Amalia was my grt-grandmother.
Her parents also match my great-great Di Stasio grandparents.
But I (so far) have not been able to verify her first husband (my grt-grandfather) - or their three (known) children - one, which was my grandmother. I'm not positive about my great-grandfather's first name. But I do know his surname was Tudisco.
All three of the Tudisco children (including my grandmother) came to the U.S. - and remained here.
My grandmother came here first. Then her two siblings came here about 4yrs later. They were most likely escorted here by Nicola Petrillo. At least he traveled on the same ship and was shown above their names on the manifest. As they were both still in their teens, it makes sense to me that a "family friend" - or step-father? Escorted them here.
The Tudisco teens destination on their ship manifest was going to their Di Stasio Uncles.
I have a lot of verified documentation. But? I can't find a marriage record for Maria Amalia and her first Tudisco husband. I also can not find birth records for my grandmother or her siblings. All of who were born in Montefalcone di Val Fortore, Italy.
I've written to the local Catholic Church and also the Diocesan office in Benevento. I've written to the City Hall Admin. and even the Mayor of Montefalcone di Val Fortore - all with no response. I even found a retired Priest with the surname of Di Stasio in Montefalcone di Val Fortore. I also wrote to him. No response from anyone. I wrote all of those letters pre-COVID Pandemic.
I'd hoped that Maria Amalia's death record might show that Nicola Petrillo was her second husband. And I'd also hoped there might be some mention of when/where Nicola Petrillo died.
I have not been able to find a marriage record for the two of them - or a marriage record for either of them with any other spouse.
I also have not been able to find a death record for Nicola Petrillo here or in Italy. He traveled back/forth here several times and it appeared that he brought some Petrillo young children, relations?...(teens/twenties) with him on at least one of his trips. So he might have had grown children of his own that he brought to NY?
But? I can find no additional records for Nicola Petrillo here or in Italy.
If I'm ever able to make my trip of a lifetime and go to Montefalcone di Val Fortore, I don't know if I'd even be allowed to personally look at whatever records they might have. The same for the local Church. From what I've read? It seems like I "might" only have a 50-50 chance? Frustrating, but I'm far from giving up.
Once again, thank you very much for the translation help!
Mimi
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According to Wikipedia, Montefalcone di Val Fortore is not in the Diocese of Benevento, but in Ariano Irpino-Lacedonia. Benevento is the Archdiocese, which is the next step of the hierarchy.
As you may or may not know, the Catholic Church has a policy that their records should not be used for Latter Day Saint Ordinances. This policy is only occasionally enforced, but where it is enforced the Church is quite strict. So if you are a Latter Day Saint then don't voluntarily reveal that fact. You may have to compromise and agree to use the information only for genealogy, but not for Ordinances.
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Indeed, Italian death records only name the current (or last) spouse, not any former spouses. However, the fact that you found Nicola Petrillo travelling to the USA with your grandmother's siblings is very telling. I do think it's very likely that he was indeed their stepfather, their mother's 2nd husband. Of course, to prove it requires the records in Italy!
The problem of course is that the records you need are simply unavailable. Italian civil records were done in 2 copies. The 1st copy stays with the comune. The 2nd copy goes to the court, and then eventually, the court will transfer what it no longer needs to the State Archives (Archivio di Stato). Once the records are at Archivio di Stato, they are public, and anyone can access them in-person and FamilySearch is free to go there and photograph them which they do and Antenati is free to publish the images. For Benevento province, we have births from 1809-1943, but marriages and deaths only for 1809-1860 and 1930-1943. Therefore, for the period 1861-1929, there is no way to access any marriage or death records at all! To make matters worse, it appears many years of records are missing for your town in particular!
- 1809-1860 records: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/28673
- 1861+ records available on Antenati as you know
Perhaps at some point in the future, the 1861-1929 marriages and deaths will be transferred by the court to the Archivio di Stato to allow in-person and eventually online consultation. It's also possible for FamilySearch to the court or the comune to photograph the records there, they have the ability to do that and have done so in the past for other parts of Italy that have the same problem.
For now, the only way to obtain a marriage or death between 1861-1929 or a birth from a missing year will be to either utilize the original 1st copy of the civil records at the comune or the church records at the local parish church which provide equivalent information.
I have no special expertise to share when it comes to writing/emailing comunes or even churches for that matter. Comunes (the stato civile office specifically) are technically supposed to issue birth/marriage/death certificates on request, though in practice they may be reluctant to do so, particularly with people from outside Italy. Many people in this situation will turn to document retrieval services to help, of varying quality and price (generally expensive). Churches on the other hand are a real hit or miss, because although it is not easy to gain access, if they do allow you to consult in-person, you can go back centuries. There is no obligation at all for the parish church to allow consultation of the records, this is totally up to the discretion of the parish priest currently serving. In general, churches will reply to requests for information, but to actually allow in-person study is a whole other matter.
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A van Helsdingen
Thank you for your information. I'm glad to learn the information you shared!
I did not know about the Church's policy regarding Latter Day Saint Ordinances. My goal for records is for our family to use to continue documenting our family history.
I appreciate your helpfulness. I love learning new things!
Mimi
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Hello again Joseph,
I think I'd read somewhere that sometimes the death record might indicate a former marriage. But? I could certainly have remembered that incorrectly. At this point of my life, that wouldn't be completely unusual.
Yes, I think many of the records for our family town might have been permanently destroyed through the years due to earthquakes and/or wars. I don't know that for a fact.
This is interesting new info for me about the Courts method of releasing their records back to the Archivio di Stato.
It is also interesting to learn that FamilySearch will photograph records (as they've already so generously done).
Have all the Italian records photographed (to date) by Family Search been posted to their site? Or are there still records that might only be available to be viewed in Utah?
I've (unsucessfully) also tried to find a way to possibly access old property records. My thought was maybe that would be a way to connect my great-grandparents names, if they owned property that was recorded in their name(s).
Family lore passed down through the years was that the Tudisco's owned/operated an Inn in Montefalcone di Val Fortore. An elderly Uncle still alive was told by his mother during the Depression that if they were able to inherit the family Inn, we'd be rich.
I think "rich" could probably be a relative term (impression), especially by someone struggling themselves during the Depression.
From all the (sucessful) research I've done so far, it seems that most of the people (including our ancestors) came from humble beginnings.
But property ownership, for me, could be a valuable record if it would accurately record my grt-grandfather's name. But I would wonder if the wife's name would have also been recorded? If not, maybe that would be another dead end?
This same elderly Uncle is under the impression that my great-aunt and her husband somehow acquired the property. I suspect my great-aunt might have legally inherited the property upon her mother (Amalia's) death in 1932. My grandmother was still alive in 1932, so she should have also shared in the property inheritance, but none of us alive have no knowledge if that happened.
My great-aunt died in the 60's. Prior to her death, she and her husband traveled back/forth from Chicago to Italy several times.
I believe her widower retired from Chicago and went back to Montefalcone di Val Fortore where he possibly remarried. He remained there until he died in 1979.
So? I've wondered if the inherited property might have shown his name on any property record. I wrote to the Commune asking about how (if) property records might be available.
No response.
Thank you again for your helpfulness.
What a kindness this group offers with this very helpful sharing! Very nice.
Mimi
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All records owned by FamilySearch are available in either the FamilySearch Catalog (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/) or on Antenati, and usually both.
The court will presumably release the 1861-1929 marriages and deaths to Archivio di Stato at some point, and when that time comes, it will be possible to consult them in person there at the Archivio di Stato di Benevento publicly. In the interim, there is nothing to do. FamilySearch can lobby the court for permission to photograph the records, and they've done so in other parts of Italy, but this is not something an individual has access to. As an individual, your only option is the comune, or to forget government records altogether and go to the church.
The vast majority of immigrants would have been in the humble class, definitely. There are exceptions to this of course, but it's not typical. Of course, if you study the birth records that are online on Antenati, look for Tudisco where the father's profession is innkeeper/tavernaio, then although it's not proof, it's a good piece of circumstantial evidence to verify that story.
Land ownership records (called catasto) can provide information, but it's extremely complex research. I've never done it myself so I can't make any comment. I know that the older stuff (say prior to about 1870-1900) is open to the public at the Archivio di Stato but that it requires a great deal of experience and knowledge to actually utilize successfully. Anything more recent than that is in the custody of the government and is accessible only to accredited professionals: notaries, lawyers, etc, not the general public. I don't think land ownership records would mention family relationships. However, if land was acquired by inheritance or transferred upon death to heirs (spouse/children), then it might be possible to glean some family relationships from that, although with a great deal of difficulty.
I definitely don't recommend using land records at all. The reality is that the information you need should be in the comune's copy of the civil records or in the church's records, and these records provide genealogical proof directly. So even if you end up having no choice but to pay a professional genealogist to go get it, this is the place to begin!
Good luck with all this!
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Joseph, you have more than done your good deed for the week with your helpfulness!
You've helped make my search so clear. And yes! Good Luck is what I'll need.
A complete novice, I've done a lot of guessing since I began this quest a couple of years ago.
It's been almost comical how successful I've been with the searches in spite of my guesses.
Much of the guesswork has now been proven both with records and in some cases dna. We've found relations none of us had any knowledge about. This is what continues to inspire me with this crazy (lovely) hobby!
FamilySearch has created such a wonderful gift for all of our families! Truly a Blessing!
Thank you again!
Mimi
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