I can't find where Johann Christian HAGNER (aka Christ HAGNER) and Luise Frederike Bätzner (Baetzner
Johann Christian Hagner was born 1 July 1843 in Neckargartach, Neckarkreis, Wuerttemberg, Germany and Luise Fredericka Baetzner was born 12 Feb 1844 in Heilbronn, Neckarkreis, Wuerttemberg, Germany. Fredericka had two children that was illegitimate children - Gustav Gottlieb Friedrich Batzner 9 May 1866 in Heilbronn and Fredrich "Fritz" Baetzner b 14 nov 1869 in Heilbronn. They had 4 children in Chicago Charles Hagner b 6 Jan 1872, Fredericka "Minnie" Hagner b 25 Dec 1872 and Pauline Hagner b 14 sep 1873 all in Chicago. The saddest part is all the children - Charles, Minnie, Pauline died on the same day of smallpox on 5 Oct 1873.
I have found Christ Hagner came to USA in 1869 (before the Chicago fire. Fredericka came to USA in 1870 under her maiden name. She was 25 year old and she came with Fred (Which I think it is Fritz) who was 10 at that time. I found his in City Directory as early is 1870
Gustav Baetzner came to USA with Fredericka's MOTHER Catharine Baetzner in 1879. She was 69 years old coming to USA. By the name Gustav got married he was Gustav F. HAGNER, so is Johann Christian Hagner is biological father or adopted father.
The marriage timeframe is very small between 1870-1872. Where else could I look?
Answers
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@debbehagner1 debbehagner1 I had to mull this over a bit. I looked at your tree, and it looks like you already have German records sourced there. Based on what you have provided, I am going to reword what you have written.
1844 - Luisa Fredericka was born in 12 February 1844 in Heilbronn.
1866 - She has Gustav Gottlieb Friedrich Batzner in 9 May 1866, (22 years after her birth,
(Is it possible she had more children during this time? At that time, marriage was expensive, and announcing marriage plans, was binding. Children could be later "legitimized". Have you check the years between 1866 and 1869 for any other children? It takes 9-10 months for the child to grown, but the father doesn't have to be there the entire time. And I will get to this in a minute. If you have birth records for these two boys, Gustav and Fritz, I would check for other births, and I would check for deaths of children that may have been born there.)
1869 - and then Friedrich "Fritz" in 14 November 1869, both were born in Heilbronn.
Now she is twenty five years old, with as you say, two "illegitimate" children. (I haven't looked at the records, I am going to ask for now, and by your answer, we will figure out a little more). How do you know they were illegitimate? Do you have their birth or christening records? (birth would be civil registration, and christening would be church records). If you have both, or either, these might indicate who the father is, or if there is any father at all.
1869 Johann Christian Hagner comes to the US. The same year as Fritz is born.
1870 Luise Fredericka arrives in the US, is 25 years old, with Fred, who is 10. You think Fred might be ten, but we know one boy was born in 1866, and the other was born in 1869. If she is coming over with a ten year old, this can be either one of the boys, as Gustav, Gottliebe Friedrich Batzner, should be between 4-5 years old. And Fritz would be between 1 and 2 years old.
1870 Directory entry: It is not clear who you found here, is it Johann Christiann Hagner? If yes, when was the directory created? Remember, we are making a timeline here. He came over in 1870. When in 1870. The directory might have a date, if there is one directory are there more?
1872 - Charles Hagner b 6 February 1872 Chicago, Cook, Ill
1872 - Fredericka Minnie Hagner b 25 December 1872, Chicago, Cook, Ill (This was fast!)
1873 - Pauline Hagner b 14 September 1873 in Chicago, Cook, Ill
1873 Charles and Minnie and Pauline die, 5 October 1873.
Luise Fredericka is 29 years old, when she loses three of her children. There is a six year gap here, were there any children born during this time? Would they have gone to Church here in the US, would their children have been christened here in the US?
1879 Gustav Baetzner comes with Fredericka's mother, Catharine (Catherina?) who is 69 years old. (Born in 1810?) And by the time he marries in 1891, his last name is no longer Baetzner, but Hagner.
1880 Johann Christian Hagner dies.
Two things: Have you checked for marriage records Germany before Johann Christiann left? Have you found US census records for 1880 to see how his wife Luise Fredericka is listed? She should be listed on that record as a widow. Do you know if they went to church? Is where they are buried affiliated with a church they would have gone to?
1880 Johann Christian Hagner dies.
Have you tried checking the German church records, of where he is from, for a death record? I ask, because sometime in German records, we find some commentary about a person leaving for America, or marrying in America, or dying in America, if there was any correspondence. If they did get married in the US, would it have been a civil marriage or church marriage?
I speak German, and took a look at the birth record of the one born 14 November 1869. There is a note, it reads "unerledigt 2. 28. 1870.
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@debbehagner1 debbehagner1 "unerledegit" means "unfinished" and we are perplexed at this comment. We are still thinking about what it means. And looking at the other sources.
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Here's the link to the first son, born 9 May 1866. Entry nr. 166 beneath Luisa entry.
[?]schaft [?] 7 September 1866.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDX-63LY-F?i=161
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I am aware of this record. I had asked Larry Jansen (German expert) back in 1990's. He told me that it means illegitimate. that the father denied and they went to court. I already had this record posted on my tree LHKK-9HW
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You can also see his brother record there... everything I found is there.
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I checked the Chicago marriage list, and I checked Heilbronn's marriage and also Neckargartach's. Please take a look at the documents I added under memories.
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