I have just recently discovered my mother in laws father through DNA. He was in the US Navy during
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My mother-in-law (Pat) was born in Belfast on 24th January 1944. She was adopted at birth. We know everything about her mother. We had nothing, not even a name to go on about her father, other than he was from the US. I have discovered he was married 3 times and had 2 daughters from two of those marriages. One daughter was tragically killed in 1952 aged 12 and the other only passed in 2017 (Ruth Hanes born 1928). I have sent off for his military records, also for any id records at Michigan state. I have searched Cruise Books for the ships i know he was on, I have poked around Ancestry members trees, asked every member who has him on their tree (many haven't replied), searched Facebook and even handwritten letters to 2 of his grand-daughers - daughters of Ruth Hanes with no success as yet. Pat is not aware I have found her father yet. I want to compile everything and present it to her. I have records etc up until 1947 then nothing until his death in 1978. It would just be the icing on the cake to obtain a picture of her father, her half sisters etc. I only today found a picture of her grandmothers whole family which was fantastic. I've been searching for a year and have compiled quite a bit but I just want to get as much info as possible before i present this to her. So has anyone any ideas? Is it just a case of waiting and hoping someone some day posts a picture of him on Ancestry? Any advice would be greatly received.
Thanks in advance.
Answers
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Have you tried checking the school year books at Ancestry? If you need help figuring out how to search the yearbooks, let me know.
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https://seekingmichigan.org/about/guides/getting-started-in-genealogy (many online records)
Contact the archives in the state where he lived. If he attended college, see if he is listed in their archives.
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Was he born in Pennsylvania? (1940 Pennsylvania Census lists Harry Chapman with a wife named Ruth and more family members)
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Have you searched at FindMyPast? There may be military records and marriage records for Harry there.
I love that you are trying to gather a complete story with photos.
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He was born in Negaunee, Marquette, Michigan on 3rd April 1905, he had three wives, Clara Webb, she divorced him in 1929 after 3 years of marriage on the grounds of 'non-support and cruelty' !!!! They had a daughter born 1928/29 called Ruth, Clara remarried a man called Richard Hall and he adopted Ruth. The second wife he married in 1936 in Alaska her name was Gertrude Adelle Bagley, they had a daughter and she was called Dellyle Ruth Chapman. (Seemed to like the name Ruth), they divorced in 1946, don't know why but I can guess !!! Gertrude and their daughter Dellyle Ruth were killed instantly when a train hit their car at a crossing, Dellyle was 12 years old. He finally married his younger brothers first wife Jean E Chapman - remember her name was still Chapman from her marriage to Harrys younger brother Clarence, she was 10 years his junior. I cant find any trace of children with her. Her maiden name was Richards. Only today I a connection I have added a picture of Harry's mother Sarah Chapman nee Treloar and her entire family of brothers/sisters, mother and father which was great. Also the brother Clarence married again and that lady had 2 sons already, I connected today with one of their sons. I'm praying they have something. He only told me Clarence was a nice man so far !! I've written to him asking if he even has a picture of Clarence - at this stage I'll take anything !!!!
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Think I have but going there now to see
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https://www.theancestorhunt.com/photos.html
This is a great resource for photos. This page suggests a variety of places to look for photos, but also has a link to many states. I hope you find your photo!
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Yes tried year books on ancestry - nothing :-(
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Oh forgot to say I've actually found grand-daughters too, they live in Lansing, Michigan, I have attempted to contact them via facebook and am now waiting on a letter being delivered - hopefully tomorrow, I've tracked and traced it so fingers crossed they contact me.
My mother in laws story is so sad. She did have a happy life with her adoptive parents. She was very well cared for and much loved. However when her adoptive mother passed she was told her 'aunt Lily' was actually her bio mother. She had always known she was adopted but knew nothing of her parents, other than her father was a US GI. Anyway she was told by her sister-in-law that Lily was her actual mother. Lily visited her up until she was about 8. We later discovered Lily married around this time so either the husband wouldn't allow her to continue to visit or she didn't tell him. Lily was 33 years old when she had my mother-in-law, a spinster too and in 1944 I can just imagine how impossible that would have been. Her family were very religious too. Last year after a family tragedy the subject of her adoption came up. She brought out a biscuit tin and inside was her birth certificate, her adoptive birth certificate, her mother's birth, marriage and death certificate. THAT WAS IT !! There and then I vowed to try and find out what I could. After about 3 months I found her ONLY cousin on her mothers side. He lived no more than 3 miles away. I kept her in the loop and told her about the cousin and I could see she was excited about this. We surprised her by calling to her door unannounced. The day she brought out the biscuit tin she said 'I would just love a photo of my mother' - well that day her cousin called with me she flung her arms around him and once settled she was reiterating her story of what she knew and again stated she would love a picture of her mother, her cousin handed her a brown envelope full of pictures of her mother, grandmother, grandfather, aunt and uncle. The tears were flowing, it was a very very emotional scene to say the least. Her father has taken me a year so far - him being a little more tricky as I had nothing to work with apart from her DNA. I just want to have as much as possible before I compile everything and give it to her. She is 75 years old fit and sharp as a tack so I want to do this as soon as possible. I'm actually so excited to do this. Can't wait. Don't know what she'll think of her father, he definitely was never for getting a father of the year award from what I can see !!!!!!!!
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Thanks for making me cry!
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lol sorry !!! Thank you so much for helping me !
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These extra details help. Have you created a tree somewhere? It really helps to see the whole picture of the known information. You never know what piece of information will trigger a response. We have some very knowledgeable people in this group and I love it when they share their knowledge.
I hope that some of the extended family that you have contacted will be able to share a photo. I found photos of my grandmother when I contacted a relative that was a 2nd cousin once removed. Since most people don't even know who their second cousins are, I was excited! This cousin had more photos than my aunts and uncles of their own mom!
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Let us know if you have any success at the archives in the areas that he has lived. You might also post a question on https://historyhub.history.gov/welcome
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Hi Carolyn, I've got my photo !!!!! One of his grand-daughters contacted me and had a picture of him. Sooooo happy !!!! I got a picture of their mother too, whilst not very alike, she has her fathers cheekbones and her half sister has the same teeth and mouth !!! I'm so happy. Now for one of them to submit DNA just to confirm it all, i'm 99.9999 sure its him though 😁
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Thanks for sharing! This is good news and it can give others hope. We can find our unknown people and there can be joy in the discovery. Do you think that they will submit DNA?
A lady that I contacted, and told that one of her nieces matched an adoptee, had a great attitude. She was going to suggest that her nieces submit DNA for her own research. Then she decided to use a great approach. She told her nieces that one of their fathers had an unexpected daughter. She told them that they were family to someone new and that regardless of whose father had this child out of wedlock that they were going to accept and love her. She used her loving aunt skills to pave the way for these women to find out who won the lottery and had a new sister. One father would have been married at the time of the birth, but the other was divorced. The adoptee's father was the divorced man, so it worked out without extra stresses of infidelity. I liked the aunt's approach. Her decision to accept new family and to teach her nieces to accept new family was key to having a happy reunion.
I hope that your mother-in-law can find new family that will accept her as part of their life story.
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Hi Carolyn
Well I haven't heard back from them as yet. I only got the picture in the early hours of this morning when I checked my phone after a loo run !!!! I asked about DNA and have offered to pay for it too. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon with some good news. They gave me a picture so I'd like to think one of them will be prepared to submit a DNA test to be 100% as opposed to 99.9%. Their mother was in a 'sort of' similar situation because the father was divorced by her mother when she was 2 and she was adopted by her mother's 2nd husband very shortly afterwards and the grounds for the divorce was 'non-support and cruelty' - I would doubt there was much of a relationship there, if any.
That was a lovely way to put it to the nieces by the aunt.
I'm busy compiling my book to give to my mother in law, don't know when it will be but I'll set a limit for the family to reconnect and agree to DNA, if I don't hear from them I'll plough ahead and present it all to her anyway.
I'll keep you posted !!!
Thank you all so much once again for all your help.
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You have done such an amazing search for your M-I-L. What a special person she has for a D-I-L.
One small side note thou. The grounds for divorce, depending on the state they were in, of 'non'support and cruelty' may have been the only way the divorce could be granted. He may not have been cruel, but that was 'lumped' into that statue or law. As is said "we really don't always know the other half of the story". Maybe an affidavid defining the reason for the divorce would give a more complete story. And yes he may have been the nasty man you think he was. But she still wants to know her bio dad, no matter what kind of man he was. So be careful how he is 'painted' into her picture of him.
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I agree, we do not know the whole story.
I also know people that have developed good relationships with parents that were abusive towards them in their childhood. The parents had repeated patterns from their childhood, but eventually learned new techniques for coping with difficult situations. People can and do change.
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Hi Cynthia
My M-I-L is an amazing woman and deserved no less from me or anyone. I've done this not only for her but for my husband and children too. My daughter is a Solicitor and said the very same as yourself about 'lumping it in'. He was only 21 and she was just 19, they were young, probably married too quickly and too young! He was very handsome and married 2 more times so had no trouble with the ladies, must have been very charming😀 I don't judge, it was like I said, a different time, a different era, an impossible situation for her mother, being a 32 year old spinster from a very religious family, him being a 38 year old twice married, once divorced man with a 15 year old daughter from his first marriage and a 4 year old from his second (that daughter died in a tragic accident with her mother aged 12 in 1952). He was actually divorced from his 2nd wife just at the end of the war, it doesn't state the grounds but he was supporting the child. My M-I-L was conceived in 1943, born January 1944 and he came back to Belfast in 1945 so who knows maybe he was honourable enough to divorce his wife and came back looking for my M-I-L's mother !!! (Thats the picture i'm going to try and paint) She was long gone from her home town and in those days she may as well have been on the moon for him to try and find her 60 miles away. Furthermore my M-I-L had already been adopted shortly after birth. Who knows maybe he did make further contact with her but as the baby was gone it didn't/couldn't work out, we will never know sadly....... My M-I-L is no fool. She has even said in the past 'he was probably married', mentioned that 'he could have had babies all over the place during the war' - thankfully he didn't. She is broad minded enough. I even thought of leaving the bad or what 'look like' bits out. However I think she has a right to know, why should I know and she not ?! I'm just so happy to fill that biscuit tin now, she has her mother's history, tree and made the connection with her only cousin, now we have her fathers - it will be overflowing and she will finally at 75 years old know who she is........
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The good news is you don't need to "paint" anything. On the divorce, you can just give the facts and leave it at that. Saves you and everyone else grief. However, if you can find a legal definition in a book of law, you could include that right in amongst the divorce notice (oh daugther dear.... Mummy needs something! LOL)
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@gillian gillianarnold1 How did the book delivery go?
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it went great !! She was in total shock and said she never thought she would ever know her fathers name never mind see a picture of him !! She left my house that day with a bounce in her step, book under her arm and couldn’t wait to share with the rest of the family!! she said to her husband ‘look Robert, this is a pic of my father, he was an oul womanizer’ lol
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