What other documents can check for the 1840's to prove relationship to a family
I have hit the wall & starting to get crazy so before I chuck the whole family out
any advice ?
I have a Thomas Hill b 1821
in the census records Mary is the spouse & they have 9 children
Now I found & so have others doing the family a marriage to a Mary Beaman
I have checked the birth records on the GRO site & no children born between 1840 - 1861 to a mother maiden name Beaman
I did find records for the same birth years of the children maiden name Turner
Ordered the Birth certificate for my G grandfather (hopefully) Mother was Mary Turner
Now cannot find a marriage record for her & Thomas
Checked by address in the census but they seemed to have moved with each addition to the family
Profession for father is iron plate worker or tin plate worker
Any other places I can check to see if this is my family?
Thanks
Lynda
Answers
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Lynda
Just a thought - could Mary Turner have been a widow (1st husband named BEAMAN) on her marriage to Thomas Hill? I have been surprised at the amount of "multiple marriages" in my family branches. Some individuals married three or four times, often very soon after the decease of a previous spouse. And a number of women were widowed at a very young age.
To confuse things further, I have also occasionally found (in the GRO index) a woman's "maiden name" to be surname of a previous husband. In one case, her actual maiden name is listed against all her children - except one, which was that of her deceased, first husband!
Unfortunately, there will always be missing records, meaning I have been unable to trace any record of the marriage(s) of some of the individuals I am researching. At least one appears to have separated from his wife (divorce was not too common in the 19th century) and another "wife" is then shown in subsequent census records. In cases like this, obviously there was no marriage event.
I have generally been able to solve "mysteries" by examining GRO index records alongside the census returns. For example, a child with "father's" surname, but born just prior to his marriage (to the wife shown in the census) is often more likely to be her illegitimate child than a child from his first marriage. Again, the GRO index is an excellent tool here, as the child is usually listed with the former / maiden name of the mother and a "blank" for her maiden name - which nearly always means an illegitimate birth. In these cases, the child COULD be that of the man she later married, but I am inclined to show him in a "step" relationship with the child when adding them to Family Tree.
I know much of this is not directly helpful, but I hope it encourages you to consider the different scenarios that might create these type of queries.
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Thanks Paul for the insight
I looked at addresses & professions in the census around the time of the marriages & have come to the conclusion they are a different Thomas Hill (there are many in Birmingham)
Some people have just assumed that the Mary in the census is Beaman & do not check details
I am guilty sometimes of just making assumptions to take the easy way out LOL
All the children have Turner as the mother so now my search is on to find the right Mary Turner
Ancestry are a good starting point but you DO have to check the facts
Family search is good for the documents
As someone posted in another thread Family search is not that great for the trees as people come & change the entries right or wrong & lead people on a different path
off to check more info
Lynda
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Lynda, once you decide which are your Thomas Hill and Mary children and which are the children of different Thomas Hill and Mary couples, I suggest that you make sure that you add all the couples with the same name living in the same general area at the same time and, as much as is possible, assign the children you find to the proper couples. Document your separate families in the collaboration section of each couple with the reasons. You might find, as my wife often does, that there are cousins with the same given and surname that marry wives with the same name, and name their children after the same ancestors. These are the cases where census and probate records are most handy to untangle families. Once you untangle the families, leave good notes so that others, and you if you run across the families again down the road, can understand what you have worked so hard on.
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John
That is pretty much what I have done
still cannot find marriage records for the couple with the children
But fairly sure they are the family I am seeking
I rarely use Family search tree as others have mentioned about it being open for others to change
Thanks for the info I am on the right track (I think) 😃
Lynda
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Lynda, in Familysearch, I have found that the Time Line function for the person is very helpful to deconflict children if you have the Map button on. In my UK ancestors, I have had a few men with almost 40 children attached to them. When I view the time line with the map, usually it shows the children grouped into separate areas or neighbourhoods. This helps me to wonder if there aren't separate families grouped together. I've had these problems mostly in the Birmingham and Bristol areas where there are several families in a large city area - the map seems to help separate them out. Of course, sometimes it is just a matter of a large family moving from time to time, but when we have separate children being born in two or three areas around the same year, it is a good indication that there are multiple families with the same parental names.
While Familysearch is open for others to change, I found that changes are far fewer if good sourcing and collaboration notes are used. If I have separated out similar families, I usually also put a watch on the parents of my ancestors so that I can see if someone later goes in and makes changes. The watch function notifies me if changes are being made. In other words, Familysearch is pretty good when you learn how to use it and document well.
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Thanks John
i do use the following feature but did not know about the map
maybe I will add the children to the Thomas I think is mine
Sadly they both were in Birmingham area 😎
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You seem to know how to go about this, but you don't say where you have looked for the marriage, so sorry if you already know this and have checked. Since this is after 1837, have you tried freebmd.org.uk to look for the Hill/Turner marriage? Also, you might try https://www.freereg.org.uk/ to see if you can't pick up an entry in the parish registers. Have you checked non-conformist registers for a marriage?
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Cathy
I have tried the FreeBMD but it is just the indexes & I guess I am not sure how to use it properly
Have done Family Search & Ancestry records
Did not know about the Freereg site so thank you for that
I checked but no joy
Am going to check Wikitree to see if anyone has the same family
I did find one family there so fingers crossed
Lynda
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Hi Lynda,
If you could give me a little more information, I might be able to help. From your comments to other people, I am assuming that your target family is from the Birmingham area. Is that correct? Checking on freebmd, there is a potential marriage between a Thomas Hill and Mary Turner in West Bromwich registration district (which is near Birmingham) in the second quarter of 1840. I say potential because, as you point out, it is an index, and the entries are grouped together rather than matched up by spouse. But that might be a clue to find another record to try to verify.
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Hi Cathy
Yes I saw that entry
the date might fit as the first child was born in 1841
I will get more info & post it later
Thanks
Lynda
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