Pension records England World War I
Albert Cudworth (born 1885) joined the military in Nottingham England. I have a record that says he deserted in 1915. I also have a record showing his mother filing for pension for her deceased sons Albert and John. Albert has an alias name. Any ideas on how to find pension records from World War I England.
Answers
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"Any ideas on how to find pension records from World War I England?"
Err. Basically, you're looking at it. That is all that survives for the Army pensions. Presumably there were once much more detailed payment records but they do not, according to all the research, survive.
If you want to research the two sons' Army careers, you need to be aware that btw 2/3 and 3/4 of the service papers were destroyed in a fire in WW2.
The surviving service papers are on both FMP and Ancestry but since they have different indexes, what is difficult to find or missing from one, may be easier on the other. I've had a look in FindMyPast and it appears that Albert Cudworth aka Andrew Ball's papers do not survive.
There is, however, a collection on FMP (and possibly on Ancestry?) called "Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919". This was a "roll" that was created I think from civilian contributions after WW1 as a tribute to the fallen, and AC/AB has an entry on there:
First name(s) Andrew
Last name Ball
Service number 204192
Rank Private
Regiment Alexandra (this is "Alexandra, Princess of Wales’s Own (Yorkshire Regiment) (aka the 'Green Howards')"
Battalion 4th Battalion.
Battalion details-
Residence Seaton Delaval
Birth place Dublin
Enlistment place Newcastle
Death year 1918
Death day 1
Death month 10
Some interesting bits on there maybe? (Or you may already know all of that!)
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(I'm splitting this in two just in case)
John Cudworth (8384, of the West Riding, aka "The Prince of Wales’s Own (West Yorkshire Regiment)" does have surviving service papers on FMP (again, you may know)
First name(s) John
Last name Cudworth
Age 18
Birth year 1886
Birth town Nottingham
Birth county Nottinghamshire
Service number 8384
Regiment Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Unit / Battalion 2nd Battalion
Year 1904
Residence town Radford
Residence county Nottinghamshire
Series WO 363
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
There are a number of images for his papers. He joined up in 1904 for 9y in uniform and 3 in the reserve. It looks like he spent a lot of time in India, got out of uniform in 1913 and then would have been called up again in 1914. The odd thing is that he gives his parents as Samuel & Mary Ann Cudworth, one full brother (George) and three full sisters (Emma, Lily & Rose). No mention of Albert / Andrew. Again, you may know why this is but just in case...
There's a lot of stuff in John's service papers, which ought to be accessible on Ancestry as well.
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It makes me sad to know that Albert's records do not exist. Thank you for verifying that. Our Albert Cudworth was born in Radford or Beeston, Nottingham, so I don't think this Andrew Ball is our person...yet, they were in the same regiment (service number). This alias name is what is so confusing. I am going to respond a bit more on your other post.
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Some of the above, we did not know. Very interesting. That is definitely our family with the parents and siblings. Albert was the youngest child in the family born in 1896. We think he lied about his age to enlist and said he was 18 instead of 16. I wonder if Albert had already died when John gave his statement? I will look through FMP and Ancestry again and see if I can find the documents you are referring to. Thank you so much for your expertise and your quick response. You have provided valuable insights.
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"I wonder if Albert had already died when John gave his statement?" You are right. Now I look again, it's not the Next-of-kin form that I was expecting. Sorry about missing that!
The original NoK information supplied by John when he joined up gives just his parents - 45 Deane St, Beeston, Notts (I think) when he joined up, later updated to 52 G-something Rd, Radford, Notts.
The NoK info listing all the siblings and his parents is a form that was filled in after the war (May 1919 in this case) to establish who was permitted to receive any medals, etc, - the Army had to send the stuff out to next-of-kin only and they were very precise in establishing who these were - you'll notice that it's been counter-signed at Radford Vicarage if you can find the relevant page (John has quite a lot of surviving pages in his Service Papers)
So clearly, at that point Albert had also died, so was not relevant to the recipients list.
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Well, talk about confusion... I'd have just followed the obvious trail if it weren't for you raising those issues!
It turns out that some of Albert's Service Papers do survive... When I looked under his name rather than regiment and service number, I found this on FMP
First name(s) Albert
Last name Cudworth
Age 18
Birth year 1894
Birth town Beeston
Birth county Nottinghamshire
Birth country England
Service number 10279
Regiment Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Year 1912
Series WO 363
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
And that has to be your Albert because he's the only one born in Notts in the 1890s - see FreeBMD:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
Cudworth Albert Basford 7b221
(Basford is the Reg District for Beeston).
And... he joins up in 1912 (so has to add 2y to his age, as you said), he joins the same regiment as his brother ('course he does!)
But there's a distinct lack of WW1 era pages....
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And... On Ancestry, under Albert Cudworth, I found his Medal Index Card under
Name:Albert Cudworth
Regiment or Corps: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment
Regimental Number:10279
All as expected (now). The MIC is marked up "Deserted 1-5-15".
His Medal Roll page is in the collection UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 - that shows just 10279 in the West Riding with the notes "No Medals" and "Deserted 1/5/15 (Still Absent)". This was compiled October 1921. (My emphasis)
So what on earth does that pension entry mean?
Did he join up again as Andrew Ball giving false data??? (Dublin? Why Dublin? Imagine people saying: "Well you don't sound Irish!") Or was there a complete foul-up and confusion with the records? Crikey....
(You probably know much of this if you've seen the desertion note...)
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While I find this case fascinating, I'm running out of ideas...
Re Andrew Ball:
Ancestry has "UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929" and he's in there - just over £17 is paid to his widow, Sarah Jane I Teasdale in 1919.
Andrew B married her in 1916 - see FreeBMD
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1916 (>99%)
Ball Andrew R C [Spouse:] Young Tynemouth 10b 490
Young Sarah J I [Spouse:] Ball Tynemouth 10b 490
So she was Sarah JI Young on her marriage and he was Andrew RC Ball. Sarah then remarried in 1919:
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1919 (>99%)
Ball Sarah J I [Spouse:] Teasdale Sheffield 9c 1460
Teasdale Maurice [Spouse:] Ball Sheffield 9c 1460
Andrew Ball (or rather, his next of kin) was issued with 2 campaign medals. According to the Commonwealth War Graves site, he died 1 October 1918 (204192, 4th battalion, Yorkshire Reg, as above).
While I can find Sarah in Ancestry's censuses, etc, I can't find Andrew RC Ball. Plenty of people with similar names, of course. The only way that I can see anyone finding out more about ARCB is to spend the money and send off for the marriage certificate to see what it says about his age (which I can't find!) and father's name.
The only other thing to do is go back to what you said: "This alias name is what is so confusing". Yeah - me too!
The thing is - that pension card means that Mary Ann Cudworth has applied for a dependant's pension. She's presumably said, my sons were John & Albert Cudworth. But unless I'm very much mistaken (possible, of course!) you can't apply for a pension if your son has deserted. So why is Albert's name on there? Surely she must have claimed that he died - and died in service. In which case, I come back to the possibility that the family knew he'd deserted in 1915, but had learned that he'd re-enlisted under the name Andrew Ball, giving false details. (Who knows, there might have been a real Andrew Ball, stranger things have happened.)
Mary Ann therefore applies for the dependant's pension referring to her dead sons John & Albert Cudworth but adding that she believes he was serving as Andrew Ball in the Yorkshires....
Otherwise - what on earth would lead the Army to link Andrew Ball and Albert Cudworth as that pension card does? Andrew Ball must have (originally or later) given Sarah as his next of kin, because she gets that £17, so I can't see how the Army would link Andrew Ball to Mary Ann without her suggestion...
Remember that in 1921, the Army was still convinced that (the original) Albert Cudworth had deserted and was still missing. So they weren't making a link...
Well, I'm fresh out of ideas - it's been fascinating, with enough data there to be useful. But not quite enough to complete the story!!
Do I really believe that he re-enlisted as Andrew Ball? Well, re-enlistments did happen - unless you lived the rest of your life on the run, it was difficult not to get picked up for conscription in your new life. So it's a possibility but I wouldn't say more than that...
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Never give up until you've done a Google!
Someone has done some wonderful work on the Radford War memorial (see https://secure.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/RollOfHonour/WarMemorials/Details/377 )
John and Albert are in the list - John's page is on
https://secure.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/RollOfHonour/People/Details/24561
Albert's page is
https://secure.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/RollOfHonour/People/Details/32634
Albert's page links him to the CWGC site but the link is to a guy with the wrong date of death. However, the important bit is at the bottom of Albert's page where the researcher (bless them!) found a "death notice placed in the local newspaper by his parents" (Nottingham Evening Post???) which said that he had died as a Prisoner of War at "Trolon" on 1st October 1918.
And if we go back to Andrew Ball in Ancestry's "UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929" we see that Andrew died 1 October 1918. The place of death is not clear but it appears to be "Trelon". That has to be the same details as the death notice and the same person!
😀 😀 😀
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Link to Andrew Ball's burial at Glageon in France:
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/286644/A BALL/
Cemetery details on
Note that it says at the top: "The village of Glageon is about 3 kilometres west of Trelon". So that was where he died and he's buried at Glageon.
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FindMyPast has the Nottingham Evening Post 24 May 1919.
is the URL of the death notice - I searched for Cudworth, filtered down to Nottingham Evening Post, narrowed also to May 1919.
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What can I say except THANK YOU!!!! 😊 You have given our family so many leads to follow. We will look at each of your responses carefully, put a timeline together and see if we have enough to fill in some blank spaces. You have been a tremendous help. I hope you get extra, extra blessings for doing this. Ann
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