Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out when my grandmother left Holland travelling t
Answers
-
In the Netherlands they had the Bevolkingsregister (BR, Population Register). This tracked changes in address of every person.
I found this on OpenArch: https://www.openarch.nl/saa:67ecdb77-c433-46d7-ac46-94b780edbcd1/en
This is a summary of one BR record she appears in. Further down the page is a list of other BR records she appears in. She obviously moved quite frequently.
I suggest following the links to the original indexes and images of these records on the website of the Stadsarchief Amsterdam (City Archives Amsterdam). You will be able to see the other people living in her household.
On the right of the image are columns showing when people moved in and out of the gemeente (municipality).
In Amsterdam, BR records survive in full only to 1893. Most records for the 1893-1940 had to be destroyed by a resistance group during WW2, because the information they contained on people's religion was being used by the nazis to find Jews.
https://www.amsterdam.nl/stadsarchief/stukken/amsterdammers/bevolkingsregister/
So if Dina emmigrated after 1893, there probably won't be any surviving record, unless shipping registers survive (I have no expertise in these records for either the Netherlands or South Africa).
0 -
Thank you for that information. I am having a look now and will note all the information. So many questions as to why she left etc. and no one to answer them! Will keep searching for any South African records but am not hopeful. Thanks again for your help.
0 -
Many people at that time were sent there as prisoners, as in they stole a loaf of bread, and the prisons were full they didn't want to bother with more so they sent them to Australia or New Zealand . Which was under British rule in lieu of prison.. I don't know if that is correct in your case,but I have found that to be the case in many of my ancesters at that time. In fact I have relatives there that never returned. also many went to get away from England ,so they could worship as they wished.
Hope this will answer your question
Jo Ann Murray
(Admin correction for errors)
0 -
I don't think the Dutch ever used South Africa as a place to transport convicts. The British were in charge of South Africa after the Napoleonic wars. What you say is certainly true for people who lived in Britain in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, who could be transported to Australia for minor crimes. New Zealand, where I live, was never used for transporting convicts.
0 -
You have been busy on my behalf... thank you. I know that my Grandmother probably went to SA as a "nurse" or "nanny" as it was on her sailing papers when she came to Australia. Just hard to find anything as to when she left Holland.
0 -
Maybe, you can try to find some additional information about her life in Durban. For example: do you know when she married?
I'm also wondering how you know she came from Holland.
0 -
Don't know anything about her life in Durban (if that's where she was!). Only know the ship coming to Australia left from there. She married John James Shores on 31 May 1906, the year she arrived in Australia. My grandfather JJS, went to SA for work, he was a plasterer, and met Dina there. They both came back on the same ship and were married shortly after. Grandma Shores lived with us for many years before she went to stay with her daughter Diena in NSW. I've managed to trace Dina's family back a fair way in Holland so there's no discrepancy as to where she came from. Didn't know if there were any "records" in South Africa for anyone working there or when they arrived.
0 -
Do you know where and when her parents died? That might help you to know if she left as a child.
Have you entered the information on the fs family tree, if so, can you send a link to the page?
0 -
Dind't want to leave you hanging! Give me a couple of days to sort some things out and I'll get back to you. Minding grandchildren at the moment and its a full time job!
0 -
So.... Don't have a complete FT on this site as I have been using Ancestry.com for quite a few years now and find it easier to have "one" tree for updating etc. But these are the details of Dina Koning below.
B: 25/8/1877 in Amsterdam.
Died 5/8/1964 in Mangerton NSW Australia.
Her spouse was James John Shores, B: 12/4/1866 in Richmond Vic Australia. Died 20/8/1938 in Richmond.
They were married in Richmond Aus in 1906 after both returning on the same ship from South Africa,"Miltiades". The ship left from Cape Town.
Dina's parents were :
Reindert Koning, B: 14/4/1842 in Pumerend and
31/12/1885Cornelia Christiaanse, B: 21/6/1848 in Leiden and
28/1/1933 in The Hague.It looks as if her father died when she was 8 and I haven't yet established if her mother remarried. I don't think so.
There were quite a few siblings, some of whom travelled to USA to settle. I guess work was hard to get so best to seek elsewhere. She (Dina) was listed as "Nurse" on the ships passenger list....she could have been a "Nanny?".
It's not critical that I find when she left Holland, but just a point of interest! There are also some listings for a "D.Koning" going to the UK (if it's her) and I wonder if she went there first to seek work and the South Africa job came up..... I guess we'll never know! I love solving puzzles but frustrating when not all the pieces are there to find.
Appreciate your interest. Thanks, Peggy
0 -
Ok, so she didn't leave Holland with her parents, could she be joint by a sibling?
Supposing she wasn't. She must have left Holland between 1893 and 1906 (most likely between 1900 and 1904).
Do you know when her husband went to South Africa?
Ps: If you want me/us to determine whether she was a nurse or nanny. Can you either link the traveling document or transcribe it?
0 -
I have found that my grandfather left Melbourne on the Sophocles which left Sydney on the 22/5/1903 calling in to Melbourne and then Albany which is in Western Australia before heading to South Africa. Don't know when it arrived in Cape Town. BOTH of them came back to Melbourne on the Militiades which arrived in Melbourne on the 20/5/1906. He is listed as "plasterer" (which is right), but there is nothing against her name, although I have seen "somewhere" that she was listed as a "nurse". Perhaps on another document which may not even have been her! Pretty sure that these two passengers are them. Don't have anything else. Do't have any other documents that I can send you. These I found on Ancestry.com under Victoria Australia Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists 1839-1923. Thanks.
0 -
If, and when passengers were travelling unassisted/own behalf/not sheltered in gov programs or guided emigration, the ship's masters were not required to
enlist them on the manifest. Possibly this could be the case, as a search that i did yesterday was without yield.
Found only the Christiaanse stamboom with Koning Reindert and Cornelia-you probably have this.
Adrien
0 -
BUt, they couldv'e gone to Holland to her destination? Maybe, it as been too long to remember my train of thought
0 -
Thanks Joann. I know for sure that she left Holland, went to South Africa, and then came to Australia in 1906. Just really wanted to find any information of WHEN she went to SA by looking at passenger lists etc. but nothing seems to be available. Think I will leave it now. Thanks for the suggestions. Peggy
0 -
It looks like when she arrived to Australia in 1906, she was traveling with a female, 3-year-old child (no name is listed, but there's what looks like a 3 in the female "ages of children between 1 and 12 years" column).
0 -
Thanks Charlotte. I did notice that also. I know for sure that it's her as my grandfather is also listed on the same ship. I'm just wondering now if she was a "nanny" on the trip to Australia. Certainly wasn't her child!
0 -
Interesting thought! It definitely could be, especially if she doesn't show up in any other records. It's too bad the child's name is not listed.
0
