I'm looking for information about my grandmother please
Susannah Doyle (prev Roberts), Born 12 Dec 1881 in Wales UK.
Married Patrick Doyle, possibly 1902.
Went to SA possibly 1904.
Had 2 children - Gwladys Myfanwy 18 May 1905
Gwendoline was born 29 July 1906 in Ermelo
Patrick died in SA - possibly in a bar brawl or some sort of skirmish
Susannah returned to the UK with the girls in 1907
Can you help me to find out any more about this family please?
Answers
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Hello Doreen,were the parents of SUSANNAH William and Hannah Roberts, if so Susannah was living with her family as per 1901 census, in HOPE FLINTSHIRE. In the 1911 census she is living with Stephen JONES, a widower,
David Stephen JONES, single , 19 a shopassistant, and her daughters Gwldys Myfanwy, and Gwendoline, both children listed as being born in the TRANSVAAL, South Africa. Susannahs status is given as:married: a Housekeeper.
I have been unable to find any record of her marriage to Patrick DOYLE in this country, so its possible there wa no marriage or it took place in South Africa,.I see you have the dates of the childrens birth does that source give access to marriage details.
Some of the records on the internet are not always correct and this is so with the details of the 1911 census, where both FIND MY PAST and MY HERITAGE AND FAMILY SEARCH.ORG give the surname of the 19year old as DOYLE, the original census record isJONES. In other words it is essential that the original record needs to be checked.
I will see if there is any othr information I can help you with.
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Thank you bstuart3. Thank you for your help. Those are the correct parents.
The only additional info I have recently gleaned is that we believe Susannah went to SA alone as a missionary - probably Methodist. We don't know if this means she met Patrick in SA - an elderly relative seems to think he worked in the mines, but we don't know for sure.
I have seen a Mrs S Doyle sailed from Southampton to SA on the Dunvegan Castle on 14 March 1903. Although the timing is possible, it may not be the correct person. If it is, it would imply she was married in the UK, but there is no trace of a marriage certificate. I suppose she could have called herself Doyle? Does she need identification to board ship? Would she need a marriage cert or birth cert?
We also learnt that Patrick just disappeared in SA. Did he just abandon Susannah & the children? Apparently the Church & the Consulate helped her to search for Patrick, but in the end he wasn't found & presumed dead. Her return journey to the UK with the children was helped by the Church or the Consulate.
I have also seen the 1911 census showing Susannah Doyle & the 2 children living in Wales.
It's all very mysterious.
Susannah married my father's father on 13 Dec 1917 in Wales & was shown as Susie Doyle. Widow.
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In 1911 census they have moved to 1 Cilsanws Cottages Cefn Coed Merthyr Tydfil.
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On family search.org Patrick Doyle 23 years married Susanna Roberts 22 years, at Ermelo, South Africa in a Civil marriage. On the 2nd August, 1904.Witnesses were L Cane and T Gardner (Not very clear). Taken from duplicate copy of register held at National Archives South Africa.
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That's amazing. Thank you Susan Griffiths (incidentally, my sister is also Susan Griffiths!).
I wonder why I can't see this information.
As a matter of interest, are you able to see the passenger list for the outbound journey to SA?
I'm just wondering when they went there.
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Thanks I have seen a reference to Gladwys Myfanwy from another researcher. I will get the details and send them to you
Stuart
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1850-1890 Passengers arriving in South African Port (Immigration and Emmigraion) this is the only online records for the ships to South Africa that I can find. She would more than likely travelled after this time. Another coincidence is that I live about 25 mins from Hope where Susanna used to live.
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Wow Susan! I love how you have been able to find so much information to share. I love seeing the members of Community coming together to help each other. This is great!
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Hi Susan. I couldn't find any ships with Susannah Roberts during the years 1901-1904 either, which is frustrating. She was a missionary, so I'm trying to see if the Methodist Missions have any records. Do they still exist? I can't believe that you also live that close to Hope!
Carolyn - I agree. I am new to this & I've never used this sort of site before.
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Just took a closer look at the marriage entry and it says that Patrick Doyle was born in Auckland, New Zealand . Susanna in Wrexham, North Wales. There is a birth in 1881 for a Patrick Doyle in Auckland, New Zealand parents are Patrick and Mary Doyle.
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Goodness. I couldn't see well enough. That would explain why we can't find him anywhere!
Thank you for your help on this - and for your good eyesight!!
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Hi Susan. I now have Patrick Doyle's birth record, sent from New Zealand. Thank you for your help. I am still no nearer finding anything about Susannah & the Mission, but I do have a lovely photo! I have been unable to find her on a ship to SA unfortunately.
Not sure if you can assist me further. My research has hit a brick wall again. It is Susannah's 2nd husband (& 3rd - she married him twice I think) - Philip Griffiths DOB 4 Jul 1883 in Penarth. He married Annie Edith Warmin in 1904. They had 4 children.
I have the 1911 census record showing all of this, living in Cathays.
Philip married Susannah Roberts/Doyle in 1917 in Merthyr T - 2 children (one being my Dad)
In 1931 there is a 2nd marriage record for Philip & Susannah (unless these are different people)
Susannah died in 1950. Philip came to live with us in Pembroke Dock & while he was with us, his sister Elizabeth died - I have no record of this sister, but there are notes in Mum's journal - there seems to be a few possible sisters - Gwladys, Margaret, Harriet & Lizzie (presumably Elizabeth). However, I thought these were all on Susannah's side of the family. It's very confusing. Seemingly Philip went to the funeral of Elizabeth's husband (the notes say 'Philip's sister) & there he met his first wife Annie Warmin, who was now widowed. He married her again, but separated within a few months.
I cannot find a record of this marriage.
Such complicated lives........
Is this something you can help me with please? You seem to be a very good detective.
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Hi , This is what I have found so far. Phillip Griffiths born 1883 in Penarth. His parents were Phillip Grifffiths born circa 1838 in Cardiff and his mother Emily b.1842 in Bristol. In the 1881 census they are living at Plassey Street, Penarth. Besides the parents there are three children recorded. A son Chrisption (doesnt sound like corect spelling) he is 10 years old, Elizabeth is 6yrs old and Emily was 3 years old all born in Penarth. Phillip would have been born 2 years later. I found the 1904 marriage in Cardiff for Phillip and Annie her surname is recorded as Vermin not Warmin. Will keep searching . I used to be a Detecive Constable can't resist a could mystery.
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That's brilliant & ties in with what I have also found.
You are a very good detective, Miss Marple!
I have since found that Philip married his first wife Annie (I saw Vermin as well - tut) for the second time in 1954. By that time she was Annie E Addicott.
I think the second marriage to Susannah may be a red herring. She was also called Susie. Surnames of Roberts (maiden name), Doyle (first marriage in South Africa), Griffiths (married Philip in 1917). I have a marriage to Philip Griffiths in 1931 as well, but I suspect they may be a different couple so I need to investigate further.
Incidentally, we have no idea if any of these people divorced before getting married again. No records.
Philip Doyle just disappeared in South Africa.
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I love a good detective and a good mystery. Thanks Susan for sleuthing for us! I love seeing people helping each other. I believe that extra eyes can help solve mysteries and break through brick walls.
Does anyone else have any ideas about records to search?
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Doreen, you aren't new anymore! I love that you have been sharing your successes with us and that you have continued to respond to the suggestions that you are given. I have noticed that people that respond to the suggestions that they receive tend to be offered additional suggestions. I am seeing amazing suggestions as a result of the continued communication.
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Thank you for your continued involvement in your question. Your enthusiastic replies invite others to join in your search.
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I found the family in the 1939 census living at Carmarthen Road in Plymouth. Phillip b.4.7.1883 is a Passenger guard. Susie 12.12.1882 Jean 3.5.1918 is a Drapers assistants and also ARP volunteer Ambulance attendant. Gwladys M 18.2.05 Mothers help. There is another child name blacked out. Gwladys married a Jones marked in entry. A later mark has been put beside the name of Phillip (PWC). This refers to Post War Credits a refund at the death of the holder. Sorry f you already had this info.
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Thank you Susan. Some I have, but not all. It's all interesting stuff.
I am now investigating why Patrick Doyle was born in NZ. Did his parents emigrate during the potato famine???
Why did Patrick go to SA - was he recruited to work in the diamond mines?
This is my challenge for the week.
I am also wondering about the lack of info about Susannah in SA. I wonder if she was a missionary at all (I do have a lovely photo of what I understood to be a missionary group - I'll try to attach for interest - it's too big to attach sadly).
I found this last week & wondered if this was the reason for the voyage to SA:
The British Women's Emigration Association (BWEA)(1901-1919) was founded in 1901. The effort to encourage educated middle class women to emigrate in an effort to relieve the pressures of population growth and the perceived problem of the number of 'superfluous' unmarried women, led to the foundation of several organisations to assist the latter group.
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I was reading about the women emigrating to South Africa. Mr Asquith had made a speech in March 1902 encouraging women to emigrate and the opportunites South Africa offered. It was advertised in the Denbighshre free press. In November 1902 they state that female emigrants had arrived safely on the transport Plusy at South Africa.
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Wow, now that is interesting. I will investigate further. Thank you for this.
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This! I love how we can learn so much from each other. Thanks Susan for sharing this. Sometimes knowing some back story to things that were happening really aids us in our research.
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Just looked on the Genes reunited site. There is a passenger list for the 14th March, 1903 departure for the ship Braemar castle from Southampton to Durban, Port natal. One of the passenger is a Miss S Roberts b 1882 21 years of age. Long shot but you never know. Unfortunately doesnt say where she is from or any other infromation.
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