I'm looking for information on Olava Hansdatter( LC86-PR5) born 1810 to Hans Andersen & Marthea Lars
translate this entry, date of birth and Christening date. Thanks
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7732/38976/10
Ramstad, Østre Bærum, Akershus, Norway is the birth place, and the birth date I have in family search is 17 Apr 1810, with a Christening date of 22 Apr 1810. I'm not sure if this record shows this information. I found this census as well, but I understand it. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/51153/37?indexing=
Also I'm trying to merge an Olava Hansdatter(1810) with Olava Hansen(K4N3-N25) born in 1799 with the same parents. I'm not sure they are the same person or not. And Olava Hansen has a possible duplicate as well Olara Hansen(97NC-HKN) she has the same parents as the two Olava's, and same place, birth year 1799 too. I cannot find the 1799 women's names in Digital archives under 1799 in Ramstad, Østre Bærum, Akershus, Norway.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Answers
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Oh, the link I need translated is the one in the bold at the top with the question. The second link is a census, that I understand. I'm new to this community. Sorry for the confusion.
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It says she was baptized the 22nd, was the daughter of Hans Andersen, was born on the 17th and that her mother was Martha.
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Do Not merge Olava b. 1810 with Olava b 1799 until you have thoroughly investigated who is who. Families would routine keep using a name until a child survived so it would not be at all unusual for two Olavas to be born two years apart. I don't have time to look at ther parish registers right now, but will later today.
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Your Olava b 1810 had parents married in 1802 and she has siblings born 1803 to 1820.
The other Olava born 1799 does have parents of the same quite common names but with no marriage date and siblings born 1796 to 1802.
These do look like completely different families and I don't see any grounds for merging them. You may want to do sufficient research to prove this so they no longer appear as duplicates. If I were doing this, I would start by looking for the oldest child in the other family, Johanna, born 1796 who should be easy to find in the 1801 census, assuming she was still alive. I suspect the place of Berum used for this other family needs to be improved.
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Thank you so much!!! 😁
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I wasn’t planning on it. I spent 4 hours searching last night. I looked in Census records, and birth, confirmation, marriage records for Akershus county and Møre og Romsdal counties. Some records during that time frame are not available to me yet on the digital archives. I put the only two links I could find in the above question. I’m very careful with the merge process. I’ve had to correct some mistakes were deleted by another person. Deleted from my people. I will look through more birth records for more kids. Thanks
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Thanks, I will look at the other family census. For 1801. As I said above, I searched the digital archives for 4 hours. Your suggestions will help. Perhaps at 1 am I was just too tired to think of other alternatives. I know that some of the records were missing date ranges. Perhaps they haven’t finished digitizing yet. Oh, the reason I looked through Møre og Romsdal in addition to Akershus is because that’s where she was married and a daughter was born. Trying to figure out when they moved there. 😊 Thanks again.
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I’ve spent some time this evening going through these families and have decided that you do indeed have duplicates here based on the fact that is it so easy to find records for your Hans Anderson and Marthea Larsdatter married 1802 and is appearing to be impossible to find information for the other Hans and Martha. There is certainly no sign of them in the 1801 census as a couple with chilren. But beyond that, the family structure and the ordinance dates for the family member build a convincing case.
The duplicate family has only years for the births of the children so this easily could be approximated information. Also, if you put the families next to each other, an interesting pattern appears:
In the duplicate, only children that survived past childhood are listed. This suggests that the previous researcher did not have direct access to the birth records but was working from records that listed the family when the children were older, records that may not have had accurate birth years.
Looking at the ordinance pages, all the children in the duplicate had ordinances completed in the 1930s. The parents were sealed on 22 Nov. 1934 with no other ordinances listed. In 1934, the parents would always have had all other individual ordinances completed prior to being sealed with no exceptions. That means these parents have to have duplicates in the IGI and in Family Tree.
In your starting family the parents have individual ordinances recorded in 1933 and 1934, with the exception of Hans’ endowment being listed as 4 March 1958. Since his initiatory is 13 Feb 1934, there is clearly another duplicate for him lurking somewhere since in those days the initiatory and endowment were always done on the same day.
I think you do have sufficient evidence to merge these two families. While poking around, I did find some extraction record duplicates for some of the children and did merge these in as well as adding a few sources.
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In case you have not found Hansine Oline's birth record in Ørskog, Møre og Romsdal, here it is:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070831630061
It is noted that her parents were not married at the time of her birth. There does not seem to a marriage record for them (I did just look at the index the archive produced which is generally really good) in that parish register, so they may never have married.
I've found the move-in records in most parishes to be very incomplete, so it may be impossible to determine when Olava moved to Ørskog.
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I looked some more at the family and see that you do have the record for Hansine Oline.
Do note that the parish record shows that her parents in Family Tree have the wrong names. Family Tree has Syvert Jensen Tynes and Olava Hansdatter while the birth record clearly has them as Sivert Jansen Strømmegjerde and Olava Hansdatter Tynæs.
I should be off on other projects but went ahead and did some further poking around on the family and found some things that might raise some questions for you. You may have been through all this already and have an explanation for the following, but if not, you may want to do some careful analysis.
Olava Hansdatter has a high likelihood of being present in the 1865 census in Ørskog if she stayed in the area and got married there. Checking that census gives only one candidate for her:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038287002378
This Olave is listed as 52 years old which gives a calculated birth year of 1814, however ages are not necessarily very accurate in these census records so that is not really a concern. More of a problem is that her birth place is listed as Ørskog. One could argue that the census taker just assumed she was from the same place as her husband, but better evidence as to who this is would be needed. She and her husband are living at Grebstad which is where Hansine Oline is living, which is not necessarily significant significant since Grebstad appears to be a large place.
Having a husband’s name leads to a marriage record as seen here:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000002558921
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6482/196
Listed for her birthplace is Tynæs, the same place Hansine Oline was born. Is this really Olava’s birthplace or just her residence? Her father is Hans Olsson. The addition of Severine to her name adds more questions. The late age for her first marriage and the fact her husband is twenty years older than her also raises some questions regarding her social status - could she have been under some social stigma? Such as having an illegitimate daughter?
Here is a confirmation record for an Olave Severine Hansdatter b 1808 with father Hans Olsson living at Kjønes, it does not give a birth place.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/279/pk00000000512079
This is most likely the correct record for John Guttormssen’s wife.
I have not been able to find a birth record for this Olava Hansdatter aka Olave Severian Hansdatter in 1808, 1812, or 1814 or anywhere in between to see where she was really born.
(Just for completeness, here is her death record:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/267/pg00000002285877
name fits, residence fits, status fits, age fits.)
So is there a clear trail showing that Hansine Oline’s mother was the Olava Hansdatter born in Østre Bærum with father Hans Andersson and not the Olava Hansdatter born in Ørskog with father Hans Olsson?
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To add to the confusion, here is the record of a stillborn child born to an Olava Hansdatter Tynæs in 1831
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070831620641
(transcription: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/267/pg00000000754181 )
In addition, here is a marriage record for Olava Hansdatter Ramstad born abt 1808 with father Hans Andersson. This was in 1828 in Akershus.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000001229569
This Olava Hansdatter moved from Ramstad in Asker/Bærum to Agger in Dec. 1828, a couple of months after getting married.
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Thank you so much, my sister who originally did this research has dislexia, and knew that she might have some information in error. I have corrected the names, and added the additional information in the Other Information section. I found a confirmation record for her in 1852 and it looks like her parents were still not married at that time. What do you think?
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I do not have a clear record of her actual birth place, it could be the Ørskog Olave, or the Akershus Olave. Obviously, I need to find more information to be sure. Because she was not married at the time of Hansine's birth or Confirmation, It leads me to believe she may have been under some stigma. I'm just following the bread crumbs like you. I don't have anyone left with actual knowledge of the situation. It was so long ago. Perhaps I can find out some information if I can find a family member in Grebstad on Facebook. Lol, I got help from another family member a couple of years ago on facebook. She helped me solve a mystery about her uncle's birth name as it was at the time of name standardization and he had changed it to the farm name instead of the patronymic name.
Anyway, although things are still muddy, you have given me many things to pursue as I try to solve this mystery so we can seal her to her proper parents. Thank you for being so thorough. I would have probably missed all these references to her, and possibly not been able to solve this mystery. I think, I'll ask the Lord for some help with it. Perhaps I will be lead to the right information. Thank you again. I appreciate your extra help.
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