Is it possible to find the source citation "FamilySearch" used for say, the Christening date of Joha
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@LINCOLN LOWERY
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Lincoln
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'FamilySearch' DID NOT "Create" the record for "Johann Adam Schröder" ( KN3V-J2J ) ...
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That individual/person was "Created" by another User/Patron pre.2012 in the predecessor to "Family Tree", which was "New.FamilySearch".
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That User/Patron was: CallRichard309
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You could try contacting them through sending them, either, a 'Message' in "User Messaging" in 'FamilySearch'; and/or, direct "E-mail" (as their 'E-mail Address' is available); and, asking where they got the information from.
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But, be prepared, you do not always get a response - the User/Patron may have, died/passed away; or, stopped using 'FamilySearch'.
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I hope this helps.
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@Brett . - Thank you very much. I clicked on the member's name, and nothing besides "FamilySearch" appeared, so not sure if it is possible for me (I am not an LDS member) to see who any of these pre-2012 people are in the future. Have a great evening, Lincoln Lowery
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@LINCOLN LOWERY
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Lincoln
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I do not know what you are doing wrong ...
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I just used my (additional) non-member 'FamilySearch' Account that I set up years ago for 'Testing' and 'Training' purposes; and, when I select that 'Contact' Name of "CallRichard309", under (either) the 'Name' or the 'Gender' (as on my Image above), I get that "Pop-Up" (ie. "Modal") 'Window' (as on my Image above) that would allow me to sent a them 'Message' in "User Messaging" of 'FamilySearch" (or, there is an "E-mail Address" which would allow me to send them a direct e-mail)!!!???
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What are you selecting?
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It DOES NOT matter whether or not you are a Member of the Church - that has nothing to do with what I am referring to.
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Now you have me wondering ...
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Brett
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ps: What are you using:
- The "Web" version of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'?
- The "Mobile" Application version of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'?
- The "Lite" version of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'?
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@Brett . - I was on this page https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/changelog/KN3V-J2J - I do not see "CallRichard309" as the person who created or added the details for Johann, only either me, or "FamilySearch". However, just now I looked at this page, https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/KN3V-J2J and saw the man's name as the person who changed the "Name" and "Sex" on March 12, 2012. So the issue must be when I am looking at the changelog. --- Lincoln
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Well, let's give this a try. It all depends on where the original contributor got the information. If he was sitting in an archive in Germany we're not going to get very far. However, a significant portion of the information in Family Tree came from FamilySearch's indexing program which started in it's original form in the 1970s. The first few decades of indexed records have all been combined in the various historical record databases found on FamilySearch. Often times, the exact information in the indexed record was used when someone created a record for the person in past versions of Family Tree, whether in the original IGI or the next version which was New Family Search.
Going to the Change Log, we see that the original christening information was:
17 FEB 1756
Schwarzenfels, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
Using that information, we can set up a search in the historical records. I generally like to go to the search forms for a specific country. Since I don't know how much you have worked in FamilySearch, I'll over do the detail.
1) Go to the main search page:
2) Hover over then click on the map to choose Germany:
3) Enter the search criteria. Since you are looking for an extraction record that exactly matches what you have, the date range can be just his christening year and his name can be what was originally entered in Family Tree. I would also do an exact place name match, but since I don't know how choosing Prussia over Germany might affect things, or even if the province name might have changed, I'll just use an exact match on the first part of the place name:
And clicking search gives:
Nothing! Well, that was disappointing.
Maybe limiting results to Germany is a problem. I've not done any research in the area but know enough European history to know that boundaries moved all over the place.
So if I redo the search without restricting the place to Germany, I still don't get anything.
Maybe the spelling of Schwarzenfels is the problem. So I'll take off the exact search check box and still get nothing!
So apparently this information did not come out of an indexed record.
However, huge numbers of parish records have been filmed but not yet indexed.
To find those, the best place to go is the FamilySearch catalog:
Enter Schwarzenfels and you get a suggestion of the best search term:
Using that it looks like the area was too narrow:
Click on Hessen-Nassau in blue towards the top at "Part of" to go back one step. Christening are likely under Church Records or Vital Records
(I can't load any more images here, so I'll continue below)
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@LINCOLN LOWERY
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Lincoln
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Ah ... that makes sense ... I understand your dilemma ...
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Although, the "ChangeLog" page/screen indicates 'FamilySearch', in fact, as you can see, that the "Person/Details" page/screen, 'Displays' the ACTUAL ('Human') User/Patron who "Created" that individual/person in (the OLD) "New.FamilySearch" the predecessor to "Family Tree".
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I still do not know/understand why it is so, all I know is that over a period of time (a number of Months) all the individuals/person in "New.FamilySearch" were 'Transferred'/'Transitioned' to "Family Tree".
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Give it a go ...
You have nothing to loose ...
Contact them ...
They will, either, respond or they will not ...
Hopefully, you will get lucky; and, they will ...
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Good Luck.
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Brett
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(Continued from above)
Click on Church Records to see what items are included there:
The first one looks promising. Clicking on the title shows:
The list of areas covered is quite long, but does not inlcude Schwarzenfels.
So it's off to Google to find:
that Schwarzenfels is in Sinntal which is part of Main-Kinzig-Kreis. Sinntal is also not in the list. Neither is Main, Kinzig, or Kreis.
So now you need someone who knows far more about Germany geography than I do.
Let me show you just one more thing. If you scroll to the bottom of the catalog entry, you will see:
Clicking on Click Here brings you to:
Trying one more search for his name and christening information here, still gives no results. If his record is here, then it has not been indexed and you will have to use the Browse Images link at the bottom of the above image. Clicking here brings you to this screen where you have to choose which region or parish you want to search in (this image shows just the top fifth or so of the choices):
So now it is a matter of trying to figure out where Schwarzenfels actually was or what is was actually called to see where to start searching here.
Or maybe it really was never microfilmed and the original contributor really was sitting in an archive in Germany. But I think it is more likely we have a geography problem here.
Going all the way back to the main historical record search page and doing an exact search on Schwarzenfels in any place field gives only 73 results.
That is far to few to think that that is what the place was really called in the historical records.
Sorry I could be of more help. You may end up at
https://www.archion.de/en/search/ a German archive site.
This is interesting, putting in Schwarzenfels gives this:
and in the browsable images there is:
and Wikipedia has:
so it is the right area. This is somewhat encouraging. However, there is also:
(Out of images again. To be continued!)
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Continued from above:
However, there is also in the browsable images:
And I have no idea what these mean.
Going back to the German archive for one last picture:
I would assume KB 1773-1817 means Kirchenbücher 1773-1817 so that would be too late for Johann.
Good luck on getting back to his original record! I think you will find, since it has such a precise date, that it did come from the original church record if you can just find were that is!
This is why it is always important to add the source for a piece of information. It can be so hard to find it again! To be fair, the pre-2012 versions of Family Tree did not really have a way to record sources well, so the fact that Johann does not have a source is not really any fault of the original contributor.
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@Brett . - Thank you again for your help. @Gordon Collett - Thank you for your help. I do have a month's subscription to Archion, and have found many things I can use there, but not everything. I did look later at the death info I found there and it gives his age in years and months at death, so that gives me an approximate birth date.
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