Good morning. I would appreciate help understanding the different spellings of my 9th & 10th ggparen
In our records we have David Pieterse Schuyler 12 Feb. 1636 & his sister, Maritje Pieterse Schuyler 15 oct 1630 with parents Pieter Tjercks @1601 Emden, Niedersachsen, Germany and Gertruyt Phillipse Van Schuylder 1603. Children & mother b. Amsterdam. Robert Seal of the "Community" helped find the birth record for Davit Harxsz (as it is spelled in the record). Maritje name is spelled Tjarxsz in the record with parents Pieter Harxsz and mother Geertje Van Schuijlen. What is the correct spelling to record for this family & the other to put as alternate? Robert also found original marriage record of 1 oct 1627 for Pieter & Gertruyt in Amsterdam. The marriage record has Pieter Tjarxssen & Geertruit Phillipsdr. (which means she was Philips daughter - correct?) David & brother Philip Piertersz Schuyler immigrated about 1650 to New York. In the history it says sons of Geertruy Philips van Schuyler and Pieter Diercksz a baker from the free city of Emden. This is where I will ask the Community German group to help me find Pieter's birth record abt 1601. Once in the States, it seems that the records all have the children as taking on the mother's last name of Schuyler. What happened to them using patronymics? Would Pieter's father be Dierck or Tjerck? Thank you very much for your help in understanding the surnames.
Answers
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See: https://www.meertens.knaw.nl/nvb/verspreiding/naam/Tjerk
It seems that Tjerk may be a Frisian form of Dierck, or Diederik. According to another webpage from the above source, Diederik and Tjerk have the same root.
Phillipsdr= daughter of Philip.
Usage of patronymics and surnames was very inconsistent in this period. In different records the same person could be named using just a patroynmic, a surname, or both.
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Thank you for responding to my query. In searching further for a German birth record, would Pieter's father's name be Dierck or Tjerck or Jans? Do you have time to help search for a German record for Pieter abt 1601 in Emden, Germany? Another tree suggested his father perhaps is Tjerck Jansz b. 1575 & md. Styntie Doudes b. 1582 Emden, Germany. I appreciate your help. Thank you.
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The FamilySearch Catalog lists two Emden's- one in Sachsen (Saxony), the other in Hannover.
For the Emden in Hannover, baptisms go back only to 1642. Even if the records went back far enough, I couldn't help you because you have to be a Latter Day Saint to view those records on FS.
Archion.de is a good website for German Protestant church records, and I suggest you look at their catalog: https://www.archion.de/de/browse/?no_cache=1
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Thank you for your reply. I am a Latter Day Saint & the records of FS are free for anyone to pick a username & password to sign in. We believe that it is the Emden in Hannover due to histories that were written abt the family. That is sad that their records only go back to 1642. Will I find more of the Emden Hannover records on Archion.de or just for other Churches? I appreciate your suggestion. I do not read German, so I hope Archion.de will translate. Thank you.
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@CFitzgarrald CFitzgarrald, unfortunately some collections on FS are only available digitally in family history centers, and some collections are only available digitally to Church members (not to everyone who has a FS account), like @A van Helsdingen indicated--the availability depends on the contracts that FS has with the owners (archives, etc.) of the various records.
The Emden in Hannover has both a Catholic and a Protestant parish.
Archion is a German subscription website; you can change the language of the website to English by clicking on the little "DE" in the upper right-hand corner, but the records themselves are in German. The "Using Archion" Germany "How to" Guide explains how to navigate the website. To view the records, you have to have a subscription, but you can see which records are available without having to be logged in; searching for Emden, however, unfortunately shows there are no records for this location on Archion yet.
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Hi Charlotte, Yes, some contracts stipulate only at our Family History Centers, which are open to everyone. Thank you for checking Archion.de for Emden in Hannover, I did also but wasn't sure if I was searching correctly when no record came up. I will try using Archion.de for my father's Bartling line there in Hannover too.
Where were the records kept before 1641, or is it that they are just not published as yet? I was trying to document their births and marriage records and not just rely on the History of Saratoga County, NY for their information. I appreciate your help and suggestions. Thank you.
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It is true that some records are only available at FHCs and/or Affiliate Libraries. But these records are only available to Latter Day Saints. Therefore I was unable to help you- even if I go to a FHC I cannot see these records.
The best place to ask about pre-1641 records would be the archive that holds the records. I noticed that what FS has is a 1942 copy that was produced by the nazi government in case WWII destroyed the originals. The Catalog doesn't specify who owns the originals, but this is probably the Protestant Diocese. Archion has more details about the administrative structure of the Protestant Church in Germany.
However, looking at the FS Catalog, the Emden in Hannover has lots of other records that go back to the 1500s. The book you are relying on should cite its sources, so have a look and see if it says where the fact that Pieter was born c.1601 in Emden came from. You mentioned that another family tree listed his parents- you should contact the author of that tree and ask where they got that information from.
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The suggestions @A van Helsdingen has listed are great. Lutheran churches in Germany began keeping records by about 1540, so it's possible pre-1642 records exist for Emden, Hannover, but they may have been destroyed in later wars; note that there are Reformed church records in Emden back to 1587 (see this link), including baptisms back to 1623; the family may be listed in those records. You may also be able to locate military records, which go back to 1514 in Hannover (see information at this link).
By the way, some records (especially German ones) still cannot be accessed digitally at FHCs by non-LDS patrons, even if they have a FS log-in. I am employed by the FHL, and we come across this often. In those cases, it's because the contract stipulates the general log-in is not enough; the records are thankfully accessible to everyone on microfilm at the FHL (and sometimes other FHCs too, if they happen to have a physical copy), but not digitally. Other records are available to everyone all the time, and others are available to everyone but only at FHCs.
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Thank you Charlotte for the links & information. The History of the Schuylers in Albany, New York does not give any documentation. It is just a compilation what the family had recorded. I have not heard back from the owner of the Geni tree. Sadly, I do not think they will have original sources listed either. I appreciate all of your help.
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