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Hello everyone, may I please receive assistance in transcribing two entries in separate books for the same person? I believe, one church book is the duplicate, the other the original. The information in the notes, is of most interest and appears to create some conflicting information.
SAH, Stange prestekontor, L/L0006: Klokkerbok nr. 6, 1864-1882, s. 53
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070513140182
The scan is actully nr. 58.
entry Nr. 21 Johan Dankertsen born 23 May 1874, christened 2 May 1875
I see:
Marthe Johannsd. S. Godage? (28 1/2) U. God?r. Dankert Marius Dankertsen paa S. Godager (35) I think the next column is for witnesses: Martinus ?. ? Godager en, Bernt ?, Marte Olod. Vorstad Eugeold, Anders Peders. Godager, Gunner Erik ?
The notes to the side are especially difficult.
The other entry is Nr. 29 also for Johan
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8857/75
SAH, Stange prestekontor, K/L0013: Ministerialbok nr. 13, 1862-1879, s. 68
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070123310542
Scan Nr. 75
Here it looks like he was born the 24 May 1874, christened the 23 May 1875, is listed as Illegitimate, there is information about his mother, and his father, then witnesses are listed, and there is a note about being registered, which I am not sure of the meaning behind that, and then the last two columns.
Comments
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The last column is talking about the number of transgressions for the mother, she has had three. I can't get every word but one child was christened in Romedal, father was bachelor Lars Pedersen Sande, one was a dead born in Romdel with bachelor Bernt Johannessen Rommon? (it was his 2nd transgression, the first in Christiania. The column just to the left of that mentions home christening.
Others can provide a little more detailed translation, but I like to give it a try.
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From 1812-1814 there are two boos kept for Norway. I kept by the minister and one by the parish clerk. At times there may be additional information in one of them, usually in the kokkerbok (kept by the clerk). It happens that a child may be kept in one and not the other.
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Thank you @Shari Duce I appreciate you taking the time to take a look and work out the details. The reason I ask, is because, I would probably need to add the children as siblings to Johan. Information like this can explain future DNA questions if someone ever had them.
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Thank you. I was wondering, if these were church book duplicates, one kept by the local parish, the other by the church above the parish. In Polish record keeping, often the church operated also as the civil registrar.
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I found this nice handwriting resource, it doesn't help as much for what I needed, and I found a lot of the words I was looking up, were not on the Norwegian Genealogy Word list here on FamilySearch, I even tried root words.
http://martinroe.com/blog/Cheatsheetpre1812.pdf
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Here is a rough start for you that needs to be proofread, discussed, corrected, and which I hope does not throw you too far off the path.
Ministerialbok
29
1874 Mai 2 [blot - 23? 24? 25?]
1875 Mai 2 [blot - 23? 25?]
Johan
Uægtet
Piga Marthe Johannesdtr. (28) S. Godagereie og Ungk. Godb Darius Marius Danakertsen (35) paa S. Godager
Martinus Knuds S. Godagereie, Bernt Svends ibid. Marthe Olsdattr Vastad Engeslet, Anders Peders S. Godager. Anmeldt for Same Kvinnen den 23de Juni 1875
Hjemmedøbt paa fødselsdagen av Hele Granberg
Jentas 3de leirmaal.Det ældste barn hennes skal vær døbt i Romadal for 7 aar siden med Ungk Lars Peders Sande. Det … … Barne og … dødfødt i Romadal med Ungk Bernt Johannessen Romensen 2nd leirmaal .. .. i Christiania. Anmeldt af …
Ministerialbok translation:
Entry 29
[born] 1874 May 2 [blot - could be 23, 24 or 25]
[christened] 1875 May 2 [blot - could be 23 or 25]
Johan
Illegitimate
Maiden Marthe Johannesdatter (age 28) Søndre Godakereie (1865 census spelling) and bachelor godb. (his employment, not sure what it stands for) Darius Marius Danakertsen (age 35)
[godparents] Martinue Knudsson Søndre Godakereie, Bernt Svendson ibid, Marthe Olsdatter Vestad Engeslet (1865 census spelling) Anders Pedersson Søndre Godaker. Reported for the same woman the 23rd of June 1875
Home baptism on his day of birth of Hele Granberg
Girl’s third illicit relationship. Her oldest child is said to have been baptized in Romedal seven years ago, was with bachelor Lars Pedersson Sande. The … child and … stillborn in Romedal, was with bachelor Bernt Johannesson Romensen. The second illicit relationship [was] in Kristiania. Reported by …
Klokkerbok
21
1874 Mai 23
2 [Mai]
Johan
Uægte
P. Marte Johannesd. S. Godagereie (28 1/2), U. Grdbr. Dankert Marius Dankertsen paa S. Godager (35)
Martinus Knuds. S. Godagereie, Bernt Svenss. ibid. Marte Olsd. Væstad Enestet, Anders Peders. Godager, Gauner Eriks. ibid.
Hjemd. Fødselsd. af Skolel. Gramberg i Oversvær of Mathea Hansd. Stad og Karen Pedersd. Godager.
Hennnes 3de barn. 1ste Barnene Hendes vært fødete … U. Bernt Johanness. f. Rasmussen Barnet født i Romedal i Mars 1872, var dødfødt go blev begravet i Rommesdal, Opgivet af Barnets …
Klokkerbok Translation:
Entry 21
[born] 1874 May 23
[christened 2 [May 1875]
Johan
Illegitimate
Maiden Marte Johannesdatter Søndre Godakereie (age 28 1/2), Bachelor farmer Dankert Marius Dandertsen at Søndre Godaker (age 35)
[godparents] Martinus Knudsson Søndre Godakereie, Bert Svensson ibid. Marte Olsdatter Vestad Engeslet, Anders Pedersson Godaker, Gauner Eriksson ibid.
Home baptism on day of birth by school teacher Gramberg while overseen by Mathea Hansdatter Stad and Karen Pedersdatter Godaker.
Her 3rd child. Her first child was born … bachelor Bernt Johannesson born Rasmussen. Child was born in Romedal in March 1872, was stillborn and was buried in Romedal. Information given by childs …
Here is a good discussion about the parish registers and the Ministerialbok/Klokkerbok system:
http://martinroe.com/blog/index.php/2016/02/02/the-norwegian-church-books/
I would take all this to mean that Johan was born 23 May 1874, baptized at home that same day, and did not have his baptism confirmed until a year later on 2 May 1875.
His mother had two previous children, one about 1867 with a Lars Pedersson Sande in Romedal, the other in March 1872 with a Bernt Johannesen whose surname at birth was Rasmusson (which, if I have this right at all, means his patronymic was Rasmusson but he adopted the surname Johannesen which might mean his father was Rasmus Johanneson). That child was apparently conceived in Kristiania but born in Romedal and was stillborn (which could mean before birth, at birth, or shortly after birth without being baptized) and was buried in Romedal.
I hope someone better at this scrip than I looks at this and feels compelled to correct all the blatant errors.
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Thank you so very, very much! I appreciate the time you have taken to assist me with this query.
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