Hauenstein SO - marriage - 1793 - Walser & Schenker - honestus juvenis
Would a 41 year old be referred to as a honest young man in his marriage record? The marriage record is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6F8W-MDZR. Marriage is between Ursus Walser and Anna Maria Schenker, 5 Oct 1793. I found a baptismal record for a potential Ursus, baptized 7 Sep 1752 here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6F83-RG5Z.
Thoughts? Thx!
Comments
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Honestus juvenis basically just says, he is/was an honest young man, i.e. not a widower. It may not be common, but not impossible that a man gets married first time aged 41.
For any further discussion I would like to see the church records - which I can't (from home) - so, please, post the two images (the complete pages - not just a small section - and full resolution). Also for any future posts: please, always quote the parish (not just "Switzerland").
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Thanks! Here are the images from the Hauenstein, Solothurn parish. 2 different marriage entries for Ursus and Anna Maria, 5 Oct 1793, and a baptismal record for Ursus, 7 Sep 1752, same parish.
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Thank you for the images - which also enabled me to enhance the topic title to the preferred title structure.
Marriage first: it took actually place on 7 Oct - not 5 Oct. The note on 5 Oct will be an announcement, mentioning the marriage was to take place in Ifenthal. Now - Solothurn is not my area of expertise. I know Hauenstein-Ifenthal is (today) a political community - but was there at the time just a single church - or two (which would explain better the announcement)? I assume both entries are on the same film - but in different sections. If you could go back (from both entries) to a corresponding "title page" this might clarify things.
Baptism 1752 - is this Ursus the groom 1793? As mentioned previously, honestus juvenis may just mean honest young man. Have you actually checked all baptismal entries from, let's say, 1775 backwards (possibly even prior to 1750?) - and this was the only Ursus Walser? Next potential check (to make sure) would be to find the death entry, hopefully giving the age at death.
I have summarized the family (and my questions) on Ursus Walser oo 1793 Anna Schenker, hoping for comments. You are invited to register with the forum (free of charge and without obligation) and either comment yourself (e.g. giving some info on the descendants and who emigrated when) - or at least just "subscribe" to the topic: you would then automatically get a notification whenever a new contribution to the topic is posted.
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Thanks again. I registered for your other forum a couple years ago at your suggestion. I have access to the images at my local library and plan to look closer for a younger Ursus and possible death record.
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Good ! Did you "subscribe" to the topic?
What still confuses me is the document dated 05 Oct 1793 - two issues:
1. It is grammatically incorrect: "Matrimonium celebrarunt ... in Ifenthal Octobris die septima". The marriage had taken place(!) on 07 Oct - how does that fit an entry dated 2 days earlier? But more important:
2. It is written in a completely different format with a completely different hand and signed by a different priest. Hauenstein-Ifenthal was a small parish - I am pretty sure there were not two priests at the same time keeping their own records. Then it mentions the marriage "had taken place" in Ifenthal - which may be an indication that the record is not from Ifenthal, but somewhere else.
When a parish member got married outside the home parish, this had to be announced in the home parish - and usually this announcement was recorded in the home parish. The bride's home parish would be Gretzenbach. A possible cause for confusion is that on many familysearch films records from different parishes are included. I have checked a few film numbers with Hauenstein records (unfortunately I cannot view them) - and in at least one case the film also included Gretzenbach records. Are you sure the entry dated 05 Oct is from a Hauenstein-Ifenthal book, and not Gretzenbach (or even somewhere else)? I would be interested if you could check this, please.
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I did subscribe thx! Thanks for the analysis too! I’m traveling for the next week so it’s on my things to check next time I go to the library. On a separate subject, I recently took the train from Zurich to Zweisimmen, BE for a day trip. What a beautiful place and got a chance to tour the church. I’ve traced my line there to the early 1600s.
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The first entry above with a 5 Oct date is from Günsberg, SO according to the citation on FS. However, when I look at first image with details, it says Gretzenbach parish. A quick search on Google maps show them 43 km away from each other. The first handwritten page says Gretzenbach. First 2 images below.
The second entry from 7 Oct shows it is from the Hauenstein-Ifenthal parish. 3rd and 4th image below.
Images attached.
I'm also seeing a couple different Ursus Walsers from Wysen in baptisms and marriages.
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This is difficult to comment on, without checking the films myself … especially as I have had one case (canton St.Gallen) where the records on the film were not from the parish given on the film title 🤔 ??
Next Thursday I will be "on duty" at our society's newcomer meeting - usually kept quite busy by trying to help. If not - and because it takes place in a familysearch centre - I might be able to have a look at these films … no promises!
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The information from the index is incorrect - see Walser von Wisen SO.
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Thanks for looking into this! Gretzenbach make sense with the geography.
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